Some Quick Thoughts on the Coming White Smoke Over the Vatican
Like all of you out there, I was stunned to hear of Pope Benedict XV’s announced retirement (in what amounts to be just a week from today, on February 28th).
I’m Catholic and grew up with Pope John Paul the Great in the Vatican…and didn’t “know” another Pope until after the installation of his successor; JPII was always “pope” in the entirety of my memory…and he was also the embodiment of the very forces of good in my mind. As a kid, I watched him, Margaret Thatcher, and Ronald Reagan maneuver with expert skill to bring the Soviet Union to the ground and deal a powerful blow to Communism…liberating millions of oppressed souls in the process. I am very grateful that my childhood was spent with a real-life “Justice League” on the world stage…with Thatcher in London, Reagan in Washington, and JPII in Rome.
Honestly, I’ve always been torn regarding the election of a former member of the Hitler Youth to the papacy…regardless of however much pressure (and threat to life) he experienced back in Germany in his youth. I think a better and more modest man would have firmly told the College of Cardinals that it would be immensely inappropriate for someone who belonged to the Hitler Youth to lead the Church. This is the same sentiment I have always had towards people like Robert K. Byrd…who was a member of the Ku Klux Klan in his youth, but ran for the Senate anyway (claiming, “I had to do it” and “my life was in jeopardy and I had no choice”). That may very well have been true…but it doesn’t mean you should occupy a seat in the United States Senate. Replace Klan membership with “murdering a promising young woman” and you have the reason that I thought it was personally revolting that Ted Kennedy was a United States Senator…when that man belonged in self-imposed cloistered exile if not prison for the rest of his life. Instead, he too got to occupy a position of great power despite being party to great evil.
Years ago, I had a really terrific boyfriend name Joss who is Jewish (and lives in Israel now)…and I remember the absolute horror he felt when he heard that the Cardinal who was a former Hitler Youth had been elected the new Pope. It was, for him, an even worse feeling than November 3rd, 2008 and seeing a radical with deep ties to Marxism and anti-Americanism in general becoming the President of the United States. Nothing has felt right about this country since that happened…and I doubt it will be right again until 2017 when, at long last, the current President is out of office.
In March, however, this sense of unease and conflict I’ve had since 2005 will be over as Pope Benedict steps aside and enters cloistered retirement…in my own opinion, hopefully to never be seen or heard from again. I personally have felt that installing him as Pope was like choosing Emperor Palpatine from the Star Wars movies to follow John Paul the Great…and I don’t know for the life of me why they College of Cardinals made the decision they did.
In Catholic school, the nuns always taught us that there were many mysteries of the Church that were beyond our understanding and that we just had to have faith that the Holy Spirit saw to it that the right decisions were made, particularly when the new Pope was chosen. It’s a much more comforting and acceptable world when I convince myself to believe that…because otherwise the Vatican is just another political sea, with toothsome agendas whirling effortlessly below the surface.
With all my heart, I miss having a Pope in the Vatican who I love and respect and who it’s a joy to see waving from that balcony in the papal residence adjacent to St. Peter’s. My boyfriend Justin is aggressively Protestant…the kind that was taught growing up to mock Catholics and to revel in icon-toppling. His mother, CarolAnne, is vociferous about this sort of thing…which causes great strain in our relationship. Justin and his mother do the same thing to Queen Elizabeth II as well…and delight in mocking her too. I just don’t understand that, because it’s a pettiness and a negative energy that’s so out of place with who the two of them otherwise are. The net effect is that Justin always reminds me of one of those jawbreaker candies that’s sweet and adorable on the outside…but with this strangely sour center that comes out of nowhere.
When I was a senior in Catholic high school, I remember my religion teacher taking the last week of classes to teach all of us what to expect when we left for college…since most of us at my school had been educated in Catholic grade school since kindergarten, and then onto a Catholic high school as well. She told us that there would be those out there who’d take a weird delight in challenging us as Catholics…or in doing the mocking that Justin’s family from Arkansas gets into. I remember being specifically taught how to always remain the calm, collected, and even-keeled person when confronted this way…and I draw from those classes even now, twenty years later, when Justin and his mother decide it’s Catholic-bashing time.
I find such a power and sense of peace and comfort in the stained glass and candles and incense and ornate gothic glory of Catholicism. I am so grateful for all the nuns who taught me in school, and for the steadying and reliable force that belonging to a church brought to my life growing up. Recently, I used Google Earth to travel down memory lane to look at satellite images of my old neighborhood back in Cleveland…and my heart stopped and blood ran cold when I looked for my old parish and could no longer find it. I hadn’t been back to Cleveland in years, and wasn’t aware that the church had been shuttered and demolished in a bizarre fiat of the rightfully despised current Bishop of Cleveland. Seeing a barren, vacant lot where my childhood church once stood was an absolute shock to my system…like the Millennium Falcon happening upon an asteroid field where they expected to find the planet Alderaan in Star Wars.
I remember Justin just staring at me blankly as I literally had to steady myself on my chair and the edge of my desk because my legs gave out from underneath me when I realized that my old church had been wiped from the face of the planet and erased from our reality. It still existed perfectly in my memory, but even looking for photos of it online turned up just a snapshot or two. I felt compelled that very night to spend hours and hours drawing every detail I could remember and writing down every memory I could about the place…before I forgot it and the place was lost again.
It’s fascinating that Justin has never felt that way about any church he went to. They were just buildings to him, and when his family would move they’d go to another one…or a congregation would sell the building and buy a bigger one, or move into an old Zayre’s or Gold Circle department store and make that a “church”. He takes a lot of pride in the fact that he’s “not Catholic” and doesn’t have an emotional connection to “a building or things”. Bless his heart.
I have no desire to change him, but I also have zero interest in becoming like him. The more he’d try to push me to say something negative about being Catholic or feel bad about being so connected to my old parish the more it made me look for Latin masses to attend…and the more I found myself doing things like watching Sister Act on Netflix or ordering DVDs like The Mighty Macs.
But the one sticking point for me these last few years has been Pope Benedict XV, because in my heart and I soul I just have never liked this man and I have resented his presence in the Vatican. I pray for wisdom and grace enough to one day understand why he was chosen to lead for five years, when his history in the uniform of the Third Reich made him unfit in my eyes to ever attain leadership of the Church.
I pray his successor is someone of immense personality who will shine brightly in his role and so eclipse Benedict that he’s ultimately forgotten from history. I hope the next Pope is of a personality more magnanimous, humble, and endearing than even that of John Paul the Great.
And, truthfully, I really do hope they chose an African Pope. I feel it would be a brilliant strategy move against Islam in Africa…and would also be an interesting way of blunting the fawning over Barack Obama on the world stage…since the first black Pope will enthusiastically trump the first half-black American President.
I am truly glad that wiser men than I are going to be making a decision like this, because I’m too immersed in the secular battles of the moment to be able to know what’s truly best for the eternal Church. But I know what my heart wants and I’ve expressed it…as I have a right to do as an individual. No doubt you’ll have an opinion too, even if it’s like Justin and his mother who are all about “Down with all Popes!” or “down with everything people care about” or whatever it is they are saying after I judiciously chose to tune them out and go about whatever it was I was doing before CarolAnne called again on the phone.
It’s a little surprising to me that I actually don’t respect Pope Benedict in the slightest for “retiring”. I think this sets a very bad precedent and that he should have occupied the office until his death. The abdication of the Duke of Windsor rattled Britain and the reverberations are still being felt today. I have no idea how much damage Pope Benedict will do to the world as we know ti by stepping down like this…but it certainly will make it much easier for various forces to pressure a future Pope out of office, now that Benedict’s set a precedent for “retiring”. Six hundred years of tradition wiped away in an instant by a man who once marched around in a brown shirt for the honor of a genocidal lunatic.
It all sort of underlines the fact that I always believed this man was the wrong person for this role, and that he was fatally flawed…much like Robert K. Byrd and Ted Kennedy. Their past actions really did do something to them that other people were far too willing to overlook…and if you look at the entirety of these people’s lives you can really see that, NO, they really shouldn’t have been made Senators or the Pope (respectively)…because there was something wrong with them inside that caused them to make bad decisions at crucial junctures later. No amount of saying “they had to do it!” or “they had no choice!” or whatever ever mitigated the reality that these made were defective as a result of choices they indeed did make.
I can honestly go on about this for hours because it gets me so worked up…but I just realize that all of this negative energy and bad feelings will at last go far, far away at the end of this very month. One week from now, Benedict will leave the Vatican for obscurity…and someone else will be the pontiff.
I hope and pray it’s someone truly remarkable…but at the very least I hope it’s someone I can respect and come to love as a fighter for true good in the world and a person I can admire without reservation. It’s been eight years now since I’ve had that…and on a personal level I just can’t wait until the white smoke over the Vatican officially opens a new chapter for the world’s Catholics now that this difficult one is closing.
*** NOTE: I truly do respect all of your individual opinions on Pope Benedict XV. I know he has supporters who feel passionately about him. My intent is never to denigrate the man or the people who do feel inspired by him…but it really does boil down to me feeling towards him what I felt about Robert K. Byrd. I think that’s the best analogy, more so than Ted Kennedy (who was a murderer, and not just someone who joined the KKK to survive in the South or the Hitler Youth to stay alive in wartime Germany). I just have so much more respect for all the men and women who refused to have anything to do with the Klan or the Hitler Youth and who used their smarts and courage to find a way to live without having to surrender to evil like that. No one can ever say what they would have done in whatever period of history we’re talking about…but I just find it hard to believe I’d ever willingly be part of an organization of evil just because I was afraid of losing my own life if I didn’t join up. I just can’t be bullied like that…and I have trouble respecting those who allowed themselves to be.
© 2013, Kevin DuJan. All rights reserved.
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Most Catholics have never fully examined the doctrines and dogmas of their faith, but instead remain complacent and assured by the traditions they’ve been taught. Their is a reason why there was a Reformation; the church was and continues to be in conflict with God’s word on multiple levels. The anathemas of Trent remain in full effect. Don’t be caught dead standing before the Savior clutching to your church membership and extra-biblical traditions. Your salvation is worth an in-depth study of why the Reformation occurred, and whether the RC church is truly the only ark of salvation. Thanks and God bless.
If you don’t believe in transubstantiation and the real meaning of the last supper, then you can have no life in you. With no life you have no soul. You meet your God, and we Catholics will meet ours at the end. Kevin, I have NEVER felt a connection with Bennedict. As Christ’s vicar on earth, directly decended from Peter, I have always felt that he just didn’t live up to the high standard that JPII set. When JPII and Mother Teresa were together it was like heaven and the simple teachings about Christ is what I remember most….just LOVE one Another.As a kid, I too knew of no world without a John Paul and I remember when JPI was elected and then died so suddenly……..I hear that Cardinal Dolan is up for Pope….I heard him speak on Saturday, and he is someone who is HAPPY, JOVIAL, REAL, and most importantly a great communicator of all things Christian and Christ Centered…..I pray we have a Pope who is energetic like JPII….I remember seeing a photo of him in his robes MOUNTAIN CLIMBING in the snow, with a big smile on his face, pre-shooting…..Just think Reagan and JPII were both shot while in office…remember that?? I think your article is well written and expressed many of the the things I think about our Present Papa…..I am glad that he is resigning for the good of the church. We need someone younger and jovial and who can spread God’s love all over the world. 2 billion catholics need that today.
Hugh and NayNay- I am sorry that you both take such offense to the other’s Christian faith practice and feel the need to condemn the other. This sort of posturing is not God honoring. We worship the same Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If you wish to split hairs and feel the need to be “higher on the ladder” ask a CRC or a RCA’er how they feel about the subject… or any other Christian…Read Scripture and find your answers therein- that is what is required of us. Seek….
I think that you might want to read some of Benedict XVI’s writings and more about his life. You seem to have internalized the standard anti Catholic anti Ratzinger story lines.
The Ratzinger family was anti-nazi – his father’s position caused hardships for the family. The Pope’s beloved cousin who had Down Syndrome and was killed in the early stages of the holocaust (when the focus was on killing the weak and ill).
A comparison with Robert Byrd is particularly unfair because Roberty Byrd chose of his own free will in his 20s to join the KKK an enlist others in the organization. Conversely Joseph Ratzinger was a teenager (he was only 18 when WWII ended) who was automatically enlisted in the Hitler Youth. He didn’t join rather when he turned 14 his name was automatically added to the list of members. By all reports he avoided meetings and was not in any way an active member (he didn’t ‘march around in a brown shirt’). Regardless, we are talking about a teen living in a totalitarian dictatorship vs an adult in America.
During the closing days of the war Joseph Ratzinger was drafted into the army and then deserted at the first opportunity. To call him a Nazi or to hold the actions of the Nazis against him is deeply, deeply unfair.
Benedict XVI’s writings are wonderful. Very accessible and understandable. Because of his many years as a university professor he is quite good at making himself understood (a gift JPII didn’t quite have in the same way – his writings are a bit difficult for the layperson). You might want to give the books where he gave long form interviews a shot.
I would think you might like Benedict XVI. He was evidently something of a liberal back in the day who grew through experience to recognize the problems with his old positions and his old compatriots in the causes of liberalism (sound familiar?)
In the 60s he was at Vatican II an was the type of priest who never wore the collar (quite a statement back in those days). However, as time went on he saw that those who were on his side in the issue had gone to far and that they were tearing down the Church rather than reforming it.
It’s a bit unfair to compare Benedict XVI to JPII. It’s kind of like when your parish gets a new pastor… it’s always unfair to compare the two because each man brings different gifts to the role. One was a young, outgoing former actor and playwrite. The other was an old, shy former professor who likes cats. Nobody could match JPII but I think that Benedict XVI has quietly been wonderful for the Church.
liberty —
I really respect your considered thoughts and your in-depth comment on this.
I’m going to read it over a few times and pray on it.
As I said in the original article, I really wish I felt differently about him. I wish I felt about him like I did about JPII.
But I just can’t look past the fact that I believe in my heart he should have said in a loud voice to the College of Cardinals that “It is not appropriate for me to be Pope because I was part of the Hitler Youth and wearing that uniform should rightfully disqualify me. It is just not appropriate and in the interest of doing what is right, I decline this high honor so that no precedent is set in the future for others who were in organizations of evil at some point in their life to become Pope anyway”.
I guess the thing I can’t get past is that if I was in his shoes, I would have declined it because I would not have wanted a former Hitler Youth to be Pope anymore than I would have wanted a former Klansman to be Pope.
I will always have a problem with this.
Kevin, you know that the mass media lies. You’ve shown yourself again and again to be an honorable man who’s willing to consider a new way of looking at things and people. I hope you’ll extend that same open-mindedness to Benedict XVI.
For liberty is correct: to say that Benedict was somehow unfit to be elected Pope because he was [forced to] “wear a Hitler Youth uniform” is to say that he’s disqualified because he was a victim of the Nazis. No, he wasn’t a victim in the same way that those murdered at their hands were, but he was still a victim of their policies none the less.
As liberty points out, there is no comparison – NONE – between Byrd – who, as a young adult, went out and formed his own chapter of the KKK, put himself in charge, and sought recruits, all for the sake of his own business career (if he was indeed telling the truth that it was nothing personal about black people, it was just he was looking to move up in the business world) – and young Josef Ratzinger, a kid whose father had made career sacrifices to stay away from the Nazis, whose cousin had already been murdered by the Nazis, and who dodged membership in the HY as long as he possibly could, didn’t become a member until the government informed him that he’d been made a member, and then skipped the meetings as often as possible.
The man who relied on Ratzinger and made him a cardinal was himself a victim of the Nazis and had himself been one false step away from being sent to the camps. That would be John Paul 2, who, as a young man in Poland, saw the Nazi tanks, saw friends and priests taken away, and was forced into slave laborer in a quarry. I would imagine that there were other members of the College of Cardinals who elected Benedict who knew the work of the Nazis first hand. They would also have known of the similar Communist Komsomol program, in which young people were enrolled whether they liked it or not.
As for the matter of Benedict stepping back: remember how Byrd stayed on…. and on…. and on… and on… and on… and on…. because in his mind nobody else could represent the great state of West Virginia better than Himself, even though he was 150 years old and in atrocious health?
Benedict’s stepping down is his acknowledgment that it’s not about him, it’s about the job. It is an act of deep humility.
I respect what you are saying, but a Senator stepping down or not choosing to run for reelection and the first Pope to resign in 600 years are two different things entirely. My concern with this is the precedent it sets…and the fact that now it will be so much easier for the Ministry of Truth to target a future pope they don’t like and invent ways to gin up a push to force him to resign. Benedict has made this a real possibility going forward because now it will be, “Well, the last Pope resigned” or “the Pope two Popes ago resigned”…and so “it’s no big deal”. Well, it is a very big deal to me.
Becoming Pope seemed like a very sacred thing until a few weeks ago when Benedict announced his resignation…and now it seems like a CEO position that someone just leaves when he feels like it.
You know I love the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer from the 90s/2000s. “In every generation, there is one slayer”…a chosen one…to fight the forces of evil.
Growing up, I felt the Pope was a figure like that…a chosen one…chosen by the Holy Spirit by way of the Congress of Cardinals in their conclave. I was taught that the Holy Spirit takes over their spirits and they become instruments of the selection…and the right person for the job is chosen.
And that person takes the job and stays to the bitter end…and only when he is dead another is chosen.
Now…it all feels so much less sacred. It feels more political now, instead of religious. One administration ends…and a new one begins…instead of the old feeling of this great power being passed from one to the other going all the way back to St. Peter.
I think Vatican II did the most damage of anything to the Church…but that Benedict has done massive damage that it will take a few decades to appreciate.
I wish for nothing more than an epiphany one day where I suddenly wake up and can appreciate this man…but I have not had that.
I do promise you this though: if ever that day comes, I will shout from the mountains I was wrong about him and I will embrace that feeling of appreciation for him that others have. But I just don’t feel that. I look at him and I feel that there’s something horribly, horribly wrong. I do not sense goodness or light in him…the feeling i get from him is something opposite entirely.
John Paul the Great had that goodness and light…and I actually feel that goodness and light coming from Cardinal Peter Turkson. I think he would make a great Pope and I hope he is chosen.
Kevin, I grew up catholic and went to catholic school thru 8th grade so I can some relate to what you speak of. I struggled a while as an adult trying to make sense of all the different segments of people with some or deep belief and adherance to the word of God in the Bible, as I grew to realizing God is real and knowable.
I do look upon the job of Pope as a sacred position not just anyone can fill, but I also see as others have pointed out, the main thing is – it’s about God, not about any man/woman.
If this pope has lived a life growing ever closer to God as I imagine is looked at as a requirement of being pope, and he’s sought God’s will for him in this choice then I whole heartedly respect it and even more so support it. It’s an extrememly huge job to accept the position of leader of a great many people who believe in God, it takes some one willing to continue to humble themself and not let the power of the position rule.
It’s ever more humbling and honorable when that person is respectful to the people he serves and the duties of the position, and keeps the focus on the fact it’s about the bigger workings of God and not about what will the media or whomever do or say, for that person in effect to say, I am not up to the abilities needed for this job any more and before I do a wrong thing in this very important job, let me do the right thing by handing over the position to a person deemed able.
I respect him for being able to take the hard and humbling step of stepping down. No one wants to look at themselves as not capable. And it’s not like he’s stepping down planning to live it up for years. From the litle I read, he’s stepping down for health reasons.
God is still on His throne and in control, my trust is in Him about all things.
I too find It feels more political now,AND IT IS SAD. ;(
Ahhh, Kevin. I think you are such a dear and I love your honesty.
That being said, how can we judge Benedict in his youth? God’s Church is full of fallible Popes, priests, nuns and laity. Their weakness magnifies God’s strength. Look who he choose for his apostles! Look at the lives of some of the Saints- St. Augustine comes to mind…yet they were able to overcome and become GREAT Saints. God picked Benedict for a reason. I think Benedict has been wonderful for the Church and is now making way for the next Pope in accordance with the will of God. All is well and all manner of things are well. God said his Church would withstand the very gates of hell and that he would be with us for all time (the Eucharist). On a personal note, stay strong and keep your spirits up! I will pray for your health, especially during this amazing Lenten Season. May God give you a miracle, friend.
Lynne –
I see it a little differently. I don’t think it’a about what he did as a youth…and a Hitler Youth at that…but what he did as a 70-something year old man.
When he had the chance to say, “No, this honor should not be given to a former member of the Hitler Youth…so I must decline”, he didn’t. And instead he rushed to accept that honor with no care whatsoever for how divisive it would be for a former Hitler Youth to become Pope.
In my personal opinion, he failed a test that God put before him. That was his moment to say, NO to the Cardinals and to make a personal sacrifice by forfeiting the power he coveted.
Instead, he did what he wanted with no concern for the millions of people out there who’d have an issues with him being the successor to one of the greatest Popes ever.
So, the problem I have with him involves his very adult decision at the age of 70-something.
Enter Petrus Romanus.
I think you are correct, AFB. Get ready, people. The ride is about to get even bumpier.
Maranatha
I’m sorry that you don’t feel the same way about Pope Benedict that I do, and because of something he was forced to do. I can see that other people have written to you about it already, but just to add to it — when he was elected, the “hitler youth” shrieks began, and a German co-worker of mine, a lawyer and historian raised in Germany just after the war, put the kibosh on such hysteria right away. He talked about how dangerous, really dangerous it was, and not only to the children but to their parents. He also pointed out that young Josef Ratzinger was a deserter, risking being shot at by his own countrymen and finally being captured by the Allies and put into a prisoner-of-war camp.
All of the above you already seem to know, so I’ll say just a couple more things: 1) Pope John Paul loved Cardinal Ratzinger and relied heavily on him, and who would have known better whether or not Ratzinger was fit than he (echoing the explanation of their similar experiences that Abigail Adams posted, above). In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger was only a viable candidate because John Paul didn’t let him retire — and call me crazy, but I think JP had some foresight of what Ratzinger would someday come to be.; and 2) Feelings are not reality. I’m not saying that you “shouldn’t” feel that way, but feelings are not facts, and they can be mistaken. Just something to keep in mind.
hatchetwoman –
I really appreciate what you said. What’s interesting is that in the 8 years he’s been Pope I have not been able to articulate my feelings towards Benedict in relation to the Hitler Youth in a way that supporters of Benedict can understand.
There is a disconnect…that makes me think of the Tower of Babal in this area. Almost like, is there a REASON that we don’t understand each other on this area. It makes me wonder.
If I try to put it in bullet points, it’s like this:
* I understand that many people were forced by the Nazis to be in the Hitler Youth (or that Robert K. Byrd claimed he was similarly forced to be in the Klan)
* I do not believe that people should have committed suicide or signed their own death warrants by refusing to join the Hitler Youth or the Klan
* I appreciate that some people could not escape the Reich or the Klan-controlled South no matter how much they wanted…and it’s unrealistic to just proclaim that “If I was living then, I would have found a way!”
So, I do not have any resentment towards the former Cardinal Ratzinger for being in the Hitler Youth. By all accounts, he made a great Cardinal and I respect that JPII loved him.
BUT, it was unseemly of him to step into the papacy because he was in the Hitler Youth. He should have taken himself out of the running with a Sherman-like statement, saying loudly that it would be inappropriate of him to become Pope because of his past.
I still feel like he just wanted to be Pope and all the glory and greatness that goes with that…and he didn’t much care that he brought so much hurt and pain to the surface again for so many by becoming a former Hitler Youth member made into the new Pope.
I have never been able to look at him without thinking “You should have told them you were disqualified back in the 1940s from ever being Pope”.
But, we live in 2013 where the current US President is a man who was raised by communists and anti-American sympathizers and he spent his whole youth and early adulthood saturated in that stuff…but then he became President of the United States and 51% of the public has never batted an eye.
So, this feeling I have towards Benedict is one I know not everyone shares…and at this point we’re on the precipice of it being moot as of next Thursday.
Honestly, the day the new Pope is installed I do not think I will ever mention Benedict’s name again. I will never disparage him…but I do not think I can ever praise him. Time will tell and miracles do happen.
Who knows, maybe if I had ever met the man I would have felt some connection that’s not there now…but I have tried to read his writings…and I’ve tried to listen to him speak…but all that comes through is the nagging, glaring feeling that “This man was selfish and took this prized position when he should have disqualified himself”.
I just can’t get past that.
Maybe that’s a personal failing on my part, but 8 years later and after much contemplation on the subject here I still am.
Kevin, In whatever ways john ratzinger was wrong in his youth, I imagine he asked God for forgiveness as you and I do. If God has forgiven him, should not we also?
What of moses killing the egyptian and then many years later leading the people of God out of egypt and for 40 years? And Moses willfully chose to kill. God still was able to break through to Moses heart and humble him to be able to be used by God for the great task of leading millions.
If john ratzinger did not repent from his early ways, I suppose he would never have made cardinal let alone pope.
I think it’s a true testament to God how he can take a person through tough, maybe unimaginable circumstances and keep refining him in the fire of life, to use him in a key position later in his life. John Ratzinger is still being “refined” by God as he has chosen to step down. God’s in that kind of business, cleans us up, brings us to a greater position for His glory (not our own), and keeps refining us!
You have a very interesting point here.
It’s not really a matter of me forgiving him, because I don’t have any ill feelings towards him. I’m not mad at the guy. I just think he should have declined the position and that it was inappropriate and selfish of him to take the papacy when he had been a Hitler Youth.
There’s no mad feelings inside me towards him.
In fact, it’s more of an absence situation. The good will and the love I felt for JPII has just not ever been there…and that is tied directly to the Hitler Youth past. It really is like how I felt about Robert K. Byrd. When I was in Washington a few times over the years I had opportunities to meet Byrd and I never shook his hand or wanted anything to do with him…because it was so revolting to me that this former Klansman was in the Senate, and had such a high position in the Democrat Party. It was horrifying, actually.
If that man had any class or decency, he would have never run for the Senate and assumed a position of respect and power after being a part of something so vile. Whether he “had to do it” or not. It was just such bad optics and such crass and tasteless power grabbing from someone so undeserving.
I am so relieved that Byrd is long gone…and I will be relieved when the former Hitler Youth will be retired. It will be a massive relief to emotionally move on from the last 8 years.
As a ‘disconnected’ Catholic I am also glad Pope Benedict is retiring. He isn’t the reason I am disconnected… I’ve been born-again in Jesus Christ in a very personal, unexpected way. Like Kevin, I adored JPII, openly weeping at work when word of his death was broadcast on TV, but it was under his reign that I strayed. Today I pray for two things… An American leader who will united not just conservative Americans but all Americans (Palinista here) and a pope who will united all Christians, not just Roman Catholics.
I echo your prayer to God!
I echo your prayer
I applaud Pope Benedict for stepping aside. He recognized that his declining health would prevent himself from fulfilling his duties as pope as well as his authority. History is littered with leaders who become infirmed because of illness and their underlings ruled under the guise that their decisions and actions were those of the now incapable leader. Sometimes in life the ability to lead departs long before the soul departs the body. I am one that think too many times leaders hold onto their power for too long rather than gracefully surrender it. The Church is in need of another JPII right now. Pope Bendict knows this probably better than anyone and recognizes he is not the one to feel those shoes. As your nuns told you, Kevin, the Holy Spirit moves in mysterious ways and Benedict’s stepping aside is just the start down a new path that none of us can foresee. Perhaps Benedict himself wished to be able to influence the selection of the new pope. Plans with plans with plans, my friend.
Never a big fan of Benedict myself but I am glad he resigned. I think that this should be a precedent going forward.
As for future Popes.. If the Vatican wants to smack Barry a bit, then they should choose his archnemesis Timothy Dolan.
Kevin: I think they used to call what you described “Values.” You have values. I’m an ex-Catholic; I sailed all the way up from baptism to pre-cana in good standing. One thing the Catholic church does really well is instill values. How they do it and why are other issues; but they do teach moral values and loyalty to principles. Perhaps that’s why you miss your old church so much – it represented a concrete expression of lasting values – and it didn’t last.
Love you, Kevin!
Walk in Peace, Strength, and Beauty!
Newt
If Joseph R should not have accepted the papacy because as a youth he was forced into the Nazi Youth…
Karol W likewise should not have accepted the call because as a teenager his forced labour was put to use to further the German war machine.
Likewise, skipping over nineteen centuries…
Paul should not have become the apostle to the Gentiles after his previous activity as an adult named Saul.
And Peter should have refused to feed Christ’s sheep because, while an adult, he denied Our Lord three times.
I’m sure there are plenty of other unseemly examples in the lives of the saints and the hundreds of vicars of Christ in between the beginnings of the Church and the present day. Who’s got time to review?
They were all called by the Holy Spirit, despite their flaws and failures, and they all accepted, despite their flaws and failures.
None of them depend on our approval; they only deserve our prayers.
The scandal of Christianity is precisely how inappropriate are Christ’s representatives to our eyes, from the papacy down to the parish.
Whoever’s the poor unfortunate chosen this March, the vultures in the media – the broadcasting arm of the gates of hell – will find some dirt on him. They’ve already begun to look. Start praying for him now.
I‘d go on and on – haven’t I already? – but one opinion among a billion other Catholics should only account for so much.
While it won’t affect your feelings, maybe this will provide a little perspective on what’s been decided and what’s coming:
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/2013/02/14/benedicts-wager/
Take care,
Ron.
I think there’s a big difference between Karol W working in a forced labor position and Joseph R being an actual member of the Hitler Youth.
If Karol W had been Hitler Youth, I’d have thought it was inappropriate for him to have been Pope too. As much as I loved the man, I’d have seen that as a disqualifier too.
It’s just such terrible optics…and it has such a permanent echo of so much evil.
Six more days and this becomes moot…and I personally cannot wait.
Both Karol W and Joseph R were forced against their expressed will to participate in the Nazi war machine. In different ways because they from different countries and different ages… but they were both forced just the same.
I surely hope that at the end of my days I am not judged only on the actions of my high school years (14-18) as Joseph R is by many.
He was a young teen living in a totalitarian dictatorship. Teens here in America have limited control over their lives and choices… so much the more so in Nazi Germany. Again I will point out that Robert Byrd was an independent ADULT who chose to of his own free will join the Klan – and worse enlisted others into the organization – makes the comparison deeply unfair.
I think the fact that Joseph R has devoted the 68 years of his life following WWII to service and teaching says more about the man than the fact that he was forced against his will to participate in the war.
I think the resignation is because while JPII was failing Ratzinger was in a position in the Vatican to see what trouble that the virtually unsupervised Vatican could get into. He doesn’t want that to happen on his watch or because he failed to be brave enough to resign. He thinks the Church needs a strong, vigorous Pope – particularly after the long goodbye of JPII and the 8 years of Benedict XVI and I agree with him.
Liberty –
I think we need to look at the fact that there’s a big difference between being “judged at the end of someone’s days” for something and a person being inappropriate for a certain position because of something in his past.
There are two different standards here, in my eyes.
I don’t think that Benedict is evil. I don’t think he should be judged harshly “at the end of his days” for his time in the Hitler Youth. I don’t think he owes anyone an apology for being in the Hitler Youth. So in terms of being judged at the end of his days, I think he’s in the free and clear.
Now, let’s take a look at if being in the Hitler Youth makes someone inappropriate for the position of Pope. I think it does. That’s my personal opinion.
I think there are a lot of organizations that would be similar. The KKK is one I’ve already talked about, because of Robert K. Byrd. I also think the Weather Underground, Al Queda, Planned Parenthood, and even a group like Equality Illinois (which advocates gay marriage) would be groups whose members should not be future popes. Notice that there’s a big gamut here…with these groups being very different, but all involving some element that would be intensely upsetting to have in a future pope.
You know what else this reminds me of?
Meg Whitman running for California Governor…when she knew she had an illegal worker on her staff in the past as a housekeeper. Whitman is by all accounts a very nice lady. Whitman is a fantastic businesswoman. Whitman would have made a great governor. But she was wrong to put herself forward as a candidate for the governorship when she knew full well she had employed an illegal alien in her household.
She wanted to pretend that part of her past didn’t exist, but the reality is that it did and it caused major problems. If she really wanted to help California, she would have thrown her weight behind someone who could have really beaten Jerry Brown. She didn’t put the needs of others ahead of her own ambition…and now Jerry Brown is Governor of California.
Is it unfair that someone who is a good person, good at what that person does, and is talented in many ways can still be inappropriate for a certain position because of something in his or her past that can’t be changed? Heck yah. But that’s reality.
And when it comes to the top positions in a church or a state there are just things that make some people inappropriate to put on the very top.
I completely agree with you that there are sometimes some actions taken in a persons past which make that person ineligible for future advancement. All your examples are ones where you and I sit on the same bench.
Here is the key. I start that particular clock when the person is an adult and has the freedom and power to make the individual choice to do those things.
For example – I don’t hold the children of Westboro Baptist to blame for their actions. They have no choice. However, if they become adults and embrace the hate of that group on their own… then yes, I hold them responsible.
As a person who is from a family of leftists I would be sad if the fact that I was made to go out and distribute literature for Kennedy’s presidential run in 1980 (yes, my mother made me do that) somehow made me forever unacceptable to some people. I find the fact that I did that horrible and terrible… but it wasn’t like I had a choice – I was a child.
We still agree on most things and I am glad we could have this nice civil discussion. I would love to send you a copy of Joseph Ratzinger’s short memoir ‘Milestones’ about the first 50 years of his life.
Liberty –
Your Kennedy example is an interesting one. You had no choice to go do what you did…but is distributing Kennedy literature something that would horrify someone or cause massive division and hurt if it came out later you were selected for a very high profile position and it was known you did this? No…but it made me think of other examples.
The Westboro one is a good one that’s similar to the Hitler Youth.
Just imagine for a moment that someone is going to selected to the Supreme Court or to be the Secretary of State or something…and it got out that the person was a member of the Westboro Church as a child. I bet a lot of people would have a problem with that. I know that I would. The Westboro Church is oxymoronic in name and evil in practice…and of course we all know it is run by Democrats. But people on all sides of politics would have a real problem with someone who was part of that later in life being given a very high position in this country. In my opinion, someone who was part of an evil group should have the class and decency enough to realize there are other ways to serve and that someone who does not have any taint of belonging to an evil group should have the high profile position.
I appreciate the service that Joseph R. gave as an adult and as a Cardinal, but in my opinion a Cardinal he should have stayed. I am a lifelong Catholic who has never felt the same about the Church since a former member of the Hitler Youth was made the Pope. That’s coming right from my heart. And when I tell people I am Catholic, it’s one of the first things that haters hit me with…is “you and your Nazi Pope”.
That’s severely unfair of them…and it is not an accurate depiction of Benedict…but they do it.
A wiser man than Joseph R. would have declined the high honor in favor of a role behind the scenes where he could use all of his skills and talents to do great good while simultaneously ensuring that his past involvement in an evil group did not needlessly cause and distraction or detraction to good works that need to be done….and so that his time in a brown shirt would never, ever give the haters and critics of the Church ammunition to use in the neverending psychological war that’s waged against Catholics from myriad sides.
Boy, you really got some nerve, Kevin. You live defiantly a life considered disordered by the Catholic Church (including JP2) with your ‘boyfriend’ and you’re judging a man based on what a 14yr.old did or didn’t do? What would you have done at 14? And he’s not a Nazi now is he? Whether or not he ever was, he can be pope now because of, you know, redemption. I don’t recall Kennedy ever feeling repentance for what he did and isn’t Obama STILL a marxist? Is Benedict currently a Nazi? Are you currently living against the Church’s teaching on homosexuality?
David –
If someone tried to make me Pope, I’d tell them making me Pope would be inappropriate and I’d decline it.
Just as I feel Benedict should have declined it.
My husband was raised as a Catholic in Ireland, who had several family members who were “religious,” including an uncle who was a Patrician brother. It’s been interesting for a Protestant like me but I was fortunate in being raised in a home where anti-Catholic and anti-Jewish sentiments were never spoken. I was active in Youth for Christ and Campus Life as a teenager and had the experience of worshiping with kids from all denominations, and studying the Bible with them. There were some interesting conversations about our differences but the leaders always brought it back to the basics, and the faith we all shared.
We attend out local Catholic Church and they’ve been very welcoming to me. I’ve decided not to “convert” because I’m content with my faith as it is, however, it’s never been an issue. The only thing that some might consider a sacrifice is the fact that I can’t take communion, but in the church I was raised in it was not emphasized, so I don’t feel the loss.
I don’t like the way some Catholics and Protestants bicker with each other. It seems to me we have more in common than not. I do know that the one thing that really sets Protestants off is the Catholic obsession with being the “one true church.” I think if they could be a little less vocal about that it would help a lot. It is the one thing that makes me cringe when I hear it.
Wow – Kevin – you always give me food for thought. I’ve read and reread and looked through the comments, and I finally get it. I get what you’re saying, and think I finally understand where you’re coming from. i.e. Benedict, for the good of all, should have declined the position because the stain of the Hitler Youth could mar the papacy, regardless of whether HY was forced on him and regardless of what kind of pope he would be. It’s something that, although not his fault and certainly I don’t hold against him, still has to be explained, so it takes something away from the office itself. I never thought about that before. And, I’m not sure I agree, because we’re all deeply flawed in our own ways, but I get what you’ve been trying so hard to explain. Personally, I think that he may have been strong-armed by JPII to accept the position! I haven’t felt the emotional connection to Benedict that I felt to JPII, but probably because I grew up with JPII as well and saw him from beginning to end through such a long papacy. But, I do think we needed a pope like Benedict – someone with an intellectual understanding of the rich history and symbolism of the mass and the Church who wasn’t afraid to openly challenge the moral relativism of our time. He’s a brilliant man whom I believe deeply cares about the Church. Also – I have to add, as a former member of Regnum Christi, I had some emotional issues to work through about JPII over the last couple of years. As amazing as he was, I believe that he allowed money to blind him when it came to Fr. Maciel and the RC movement. He should have been more on top of the priestly abuse cases and the formation that the RC priests were receiving. I believe it was Benedict, behind the scenes, who got the ball rolling on that, and it desperately needed to be addressed. The perpetrators needed be brought to justice, and the victims needed to be acknowledged. In Maciel’s case, justice was never served, (because of JPII and Benedict, in my opinion, but we’ll probably never know) and the victims have paid a terrible price. I find it hard to believe that a man as brilliant as JPII could have been so naive. I have shed many tears over this, because I loved JPII so much. I cried nonstop for days when he passed away. I could never leave my Catholic faith – the Eucharist means so much – I try to attend daily. But, the only thing that keeps me sane in it all is looking to Jesus again and again with an understanding that it’s all unfolding the way it’s supposed to. The reason you miss your old church so much is because the real presence was always there in the Tabernacle, so you had a deeply spiritual and emotional connection – it was more than just a building, it was a home. I’m sorry for your loss regarding that. I can’t imagine having my local parish church razed! Bless you, Kevin! I’m glad you’re back!
I understand your point, Kevin, but a man who truly believes that the Holy Spirit is at work. as Cardinal Ratzinger did, would feel obligated to accept the Papacy because of that very belief. Pope Benedict is an introvert, a man who never, ever wanted that post, and who really wanted only to study and to teach. He did not accept the Papacy out of ambition, or desire for the trappings, etc. In fact, when I was in Rome on a pilgrimage when our new Archbishop received the pallium in 2011, one of the auxiliary bishops of L.A. told me that the Pope’s brother, Georg, had been very upset when Cardinal Ratzinger was elected because it spoiled all their plans to retire together, and because he knew that his brother had been so looking forward to retiring from his current position and having no responsibilities at all. But the Holy Spirit had other plans, evidently.
Remember — St. Peter betrayed Our Lord three times, and he was still the leader of the Church. St. Augustine of Hippo was a libertine who engaged in debauchery of various types, and who, even as he felt the stirrings of conversion, prayed, “Lord, make me virtuous — but not yet.” Church history is filled with the stories of saints who were tainted by human standards but who were nonetheless tapped by God to do His bidding.
Susan, with respect to Maciel … it’s my understanding, based on reports from the Mexican Catholic press and people I know in Mexico who are involved in the Church, that then-Cardinal Ratzinger urged Pope John Paul to believe the information about Maciel, but for reasons I just cannot fathom, Pope John Paul couldn’t face the truth. One of the first things Cardinal Ratzinger did when he became Pope Benedict was to address the issue with Maciel. I have since learned that it’s believed that Cardinal Angelo Sodano is the one who sheltered Maciel from the Pope, but I haven’t delved very deeply into that, so I don’t know if there is evidence to back up that claim.
Another factor in Benedict’s favor was that, as Cardinal Ratzinger, he repeatedly asked Pope John Paul to allow him to take charge of the many cases of priests who were molesters but who were still active because of problems with the procedure to laicize them — and why Cardinal Ratzinger would have had to ask repeatedly, I just cannot explain. But once Pope JP finally allowed him to do it, Cardinal Ratzinger was instrumental in getting those men out of the priesthood. The media has put forth very biased and inaccurate (not to mention outright lies like the “New York Times” story, where their source, linked from the story, flatly contradicted the claims in the article) about Benedict. They have hated him from the beginning for his orthodoxy, and because he’s not photogenic and charismatic like Pope JP II was, they’ve succeeded in making him the bad guy, when he was anything but. I loved Pope John Paul II, but these two issues really bother me — how he could be so naive, and how he could choose to not believe the mountain of evidence against Maciel — I cannot wrap my mind around that.
The best explanation I have seen for why JPII was reluctant to handle Maciel is that he came from a Communist country where the government would often tell lies about good and holy men in order to destroy them.
It unfortunately created a ‘boy who cried wolf’ problem with JPII. So often he had seen religious falsely accused for political reasons in Poland that we wasn’t really able to see it when there were accusations which were true against Maciel and others.
Ratzinger didn’t have the same history and so was much more receptive to the truth and wanted to move on it as soon as possible.
Kevin,
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary on this.
That’s a rather blunt way of summing it up. Blunt is good.
I will not opine on Pope Benedict XVI, but will say that we are all flawed humans. Any Pope is going to have messed up, done some stupid things, some evil things, some wrong things. But there are lines, IMHO, that should not be crossed.
I’m also not sure how we can hold up martyrs as saints when lead by a man who chose evil instead of martyrdom. (No, I wouldn’t have the guts to be martyred, but I’m not leading the Catholic Church.)
Thank you, Hatchetwoman for the info. about Fr. Maciel – having been in the Movement, I’ve heard all kinds of stuff, but I’m never sure what’s true because the spin has been incredible to keep the “Movement” looking clean while making Maciel the bad guy. Someone close to Maciel (probably several people) had to have known what was happening. The whole priestly scandal has bothered me so much, but I do believe that Benedict has not been given credit by the American media (surprise, surprise) for how much he has done to address the issue.
Liberty – I never thought about it that way before – thank you! I know the Church was also infiltrated by Communists, which probably only compounded the problem.
It’s always interesting to me that any story about the Pope brings forth such a rash of deeply-felt opinions on popes and Catholicism. I wish I had time to read all the comments.
I grew up Catholic in the South but went to public school and was always aware that there were plenty of Protestants who looked down on Catholics, mostly through ignorance, but almost all with the gleeful and mocking superiority you describe.
Regarding Benedict XVI and how the Holy Spirit could have moved the College of Cardinals to elect him, consider the following:
1. He was destined, through age, never to be more than a placeholder pope with a fairly short reign.
2. There were some nasty things to clean up in the church. Benedict succeeded in cleaning up some of those things. He failed in other things, and he got blamed whether he succeeded or failed. I’m speaking specifically about the priest abuse scandals (most of which actually took place during JPII’s reign) and the reform of the curia.
3. The big goals he had remain mostly unfulfilled Reconciliation of schisms, faith renewal. But what he actually accomplished–particularly in rolling back some of the abuses of Vatican II, renewing the Latin rite and getting the new liturgical translations finished, on the faith side, and cleaning up the clerical abuse, despite the resistance of the curia, on the management side–is huge.
4. Ultimately, regardless of what he did or didn’t do, his comparatively short reign will be remembered for the clerical abuse scandal. In other words, he’s taking the fall for that (even though most of it happened in the previous reign, and the end of it probably hasn’t been reached). Rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, that is what his papacy will be remembered for. This sets the stage for the next pope to escape from this taint.
So, the Holy Spirit knew that this scandal was still growing, knew that there was a lot of cleanup to do, and knew that some of the Vatican II abuses needed to be reined in. In that light, the choice of Benedict XVI was probably one of the best choices possible.
If you’ve read the text of his resignation, you know that his emphasis was on passing the crown to someone with youth and vigor. I think the College of Cardinals received this message loudly and clearly, even though the media (surpirse) seems to have glossed over it and put forth all the same “frontrunners” as last time, even though they’re all eight years older now. The next pope will be someone comparatively young who’s not on anyone’s radar right now. Just like JPII was such a surprise.
I’ll leave the issue of the resignation itself for now, but I want to ask you, Kevin, please to read Benedict’s address last week:
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/02/14/pope:_vatican_ii,_as_i_saw_it_%5Bfull_text%5D/en1-665030
It is instructive about Vatican II and how it has been mistakenly interpreted. Especially important are the last two paragraphs, about how the media created its own truth about Vatican II, and how that is what the world accepted. Sound familiar? Please read those last two paragraphs even if you don’t have time to read the entire text.
The media is never going to fall for another pope like they did for JPII, not even if the College chooses someone who looks like Ewan McGregor. So the next pope has to be someone who can take on the media.
Have faith in the Holy Spirit to choose the next pope to be someone the Church needs now, in the year of our Lord 2013, and in the years to follow. The Holy Spirit knows what’s coming. We don’t.
God bless you, Kevin.
Laura –
What well-articulated thoughts on this!
I think you are 100% right on the one about age…and being just a placeholder. I’ve always thought that too.
I still for the life of me can’t think of the ultimate good that will come from him having been in the Hitler Youth, though.
But…it’s kind of a personal challenge, really, to see if you really do believe that the Holy Spirit makes the decision and picks the right person. Maybe the reason a former Hitler Youth was chosen was to give people doubt, and working through doubt is the challenge that was needed.
Anytime there is vigorous thought and scrutiny it’s kind of a good thing…it gets the juices flowing and the heart beating and the brain working.
Maybe it’s supposed to be a lesson in redemption…and that a Hitler Youth could change his ways and become Pope.
I really don’t know.
Maybe I’m not supposed to know.
But I do appreciate the simple fact that his election never sat well with me…and I also know that there’s no requirement for me to like the fact that he’s Pope.
I will tell you one good thing that has come from him being Pope, and it’s that I really know what side of the fence I’m on with a few things. I see people out there who are just vile and say the nastiest things about this man…and I realize I could never, ever be like those people. That’s the Left in action…and it’s how Democrats treat someone they don’t like. I do not want to be in that group.
So, while I have not enjoyed the fact that Benedict was Pope I can also say truthfully that I never came at him with hate in my heart the way I see others do. And in thinking about that, I realize that I’ve never had hate in my heart for anyone and that there just isn’t a reservoir in that inside me. There sure are people in this world I don’t particularly like and who I think are bad people…but I don’t hate any of them.
And I don’t think Benedict is a bad person…and I have never hated him. I just don’t like him as our Pope…but I am old enough to grant that perhaps I don’t yet understand the mystery of why he was chosen above all others.
And I leave room to say that maybe one day I will have a flash of inspiration and understanding and see the value in the last 8 years.
I promise to let you know if that happens.
Kevin — as a Protestant, I have been watching all this with great interest.
Like Laura, I do believe Pope Benedict was to serve as an ‘interim’ Pope, and I also look at what he quietly did.
I believe one of his legacies will be his holding the theological line, and elevating similarly sound men to Cardinal (such as Cardinal Dolan) — this will increase the chances that a theologically sound (and perhaps younger) man will be elevated to Pope, and who can lead the church back to sound teachings again. (Look at how many of the ‘Roman Catholic’ colleges have caved to culture and don’t resemble anything that looks like a RCC institution; look how many American Catholics have embraced the doctrine of social justice.)
Cardinal Dolan or a Cardinal from one of the persecuted countries would be an excellent choice, as they understand the battle the church (universal) is facing — our persecutors don’t care if we’re Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian or Anglican; they simply know us as “Christians,” a threat which must be eliminated.
I also would be very excited to see Cardinal Dolan elevated to Pope — he has been the face of the mandate battle for RC’s and Protestants alike.
One of the things I remember about Pope Benedict’s tenure was his 2009 meeting with Rep. Pelosi, and each of their takes from that meeting (the contrast is hysterical): http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/nancy_pelosi_tries_to_spin_meeting_with_pope_benedict/ and http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope_benedict_strongly_rebukes_pelosi_over_abortion/
Rep. Pelosi:
“It is with great joy that my husband, Paul, and I met with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI, today. In our conversation, I had the opportunity to praise the Church’s leadership in fighting poverty, hunger, and global warming, as well as the Holy Father’s dedication to religious freedom and his upcoming trip and message to Israel. I was proud to show His Holiness a photograph of my family’s papal visit in the 1950s, as well as a recent picture of our children and grandchildren.”
Pope Benedict:
“His Holiness took the opportunity to speak of the requirements of the natural moral law and the Church’s consistent teaching on the dignity of human life from conception to natural death which enjoin all Catholics, and especially legislators, jurists and those responsible for the common good of society, to work in co-operation with all men and women of good will in creating a just system of laws capable of protecting human life at all stages of its development.”
(Remember this meeting was in part a response to Rep. Pelosi’s 2008 interpretation of RCC teachings: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804350.htm )
Even though I am not a RC, I will be praying for the Holy Spirit’s presence as the Cardinals choose the next Pope — Christianity needs strong leaders, in all its corners, to lead the church through what is coming.
You are more Catholic than many of the Catholics that I personally know, especially those in Australia.
Kevin Josef Ratzinger did not participate in Hitler Youth.
He was enrolled, just like all German Youth, but he did not attend. He went AWOL or played hookey from those meetings.
This is one thing that the Press have not talked about, but it is the truth.
Josef Ratzinger was not a participant in Hitler Youth!!
What an extraordinary post, with insightful comments all the way through. Rather than focusing on the choosing of a new Pope, it was these words that you wrote which jumped out at me:
“I find such a power and sense of peace and comfort in the stained glass and candles and incense and ornate gothic glory of Catholicism.”
I’m surrounded by protestants, and while I am accepting on almost all religious fronts, my heart belongs to the Catholic Church. While it may be difficult to explain to non-Catholics why we believe as we do, the simplicity of the devotions that we find in the Church, surpasses anything that I’ve experienced in other faith denominations.
BTW, welcome back, have been keeping vigil for you. May God give you healing and strength.
When I was in elementary school I was told by a child in my neighborhood that his mother said I was going to hell because
I wasn’t a Catholic. I learned at a young age that religion was a
hot topic.
My mother was left to raise 4 young children between the ages of 1-8 when my father passed away suddenly from a heart attack. A year later I became very worried about losing my mother. That is when Almighty God in his infinite wisdom and mercy spoke to a little girl and assured her that her mother would be there and not to worry. That experience is as real today as it was then.
I have been in some beautiful churches in Europe and have even
been at a Russian Orthodox Church service in Moscow. The Pieta in the Vatican made me cry because it was so beautiful. I can understand that people can take comfort in the beauty and ritual.
Protestants tend to commune directly with God and read his word in the Holy Bible much of which happens outside of church and therefore I think that they are less attached to the actual building. The church and town that was settled and built by my ancestors will always have a feeling of home as does the cemetery where they are buried.
I don’t have any strong opinions about the Pope but any position that is very powerful and occupied by fallible human beings is a cause for worry since power can be so corrupting. I never liked Byrd and could never see Ted Kennedy without thinking about Mary Jo.
May God bless and heal you.
Fascinating post, Kevin—I’ve enjoyed reading it though I’m a Protestant myself. That said, I was baptized in a Catholic church and my grandparents are all Catholic, and of course I attended Mass with them as a child on overnight visits. Though we have theological disagreements, I’ve never seen the point in Catholic-bashing. It’s pretty ugly, IMO—though I’ve had a couple of Catholics bash me, too, and…oh well. Bless their hearts.
Your comments about Protestant churches are interesting. I suspect it might be due to just what you talked about—growing from place to place, often in old multiplexes or storefronts or old schools (as in my case). The only church I really have strong, fond memories of is an old A of G in St. Clair Shores—it was an actual church building, meant and built for the purpose of worship. Now we go to a church here in Ohio that was actually built with the purpose of being a church—I wonder if that has something to do with it?
Of course, Catholic churches are beautiful, and always memorable; I’ll never forget my dad’s parents’ parish, ever, having gone there so many times with them and for both of their funerals (sadly, it closed for good last November—Grandpa was the last member of that church to be sent Home from where it had physically met for 50 years). Anyhow—my churches have always been a bit plain and dull. But with Catholic churches it is much different. I’ve no doubt the physical beauty and grandness of Catholic churches and the thought put into making them so is a part of your connection to it, and understandable grief at its loss (I photograph old churches a lot and it always makes me sad to see them in decay or about to be razed). There’s the ritual, too…it is comforting, and I think Protestants ridicule it without thinking about its place in our lives.
Yes, it’s the PEOPLE who make a church, not the building—but the building can go a long way toward making it seem richer. God did give us two eyes, after all.
It is so good to see you back, too. Hugs & love from Columbus!
Being in the Hitler Youth would have more meaning if it was done willingly or when he was much older. Forced membership 2 years into a war is not something to hold against a 14 year old the rest of his life, that is way too much the left’s tactic and I don’t think it’s right to insist that minors must be martyrs or forever be unforgiven.
As far as why the Cardinals went with him last time, he was the closest thing to be had to a continuation of the previous pope’s program, having been a close collaborator of JP2 since the early 1980s. I think in general it has been a success in the ways that matter – a refocusing on worship and a lot of good teaching material (the trilogy on the life of Jesus being one of my favorites).
The abdication doesn’t trouble me too much. There are trying years ahead and perhaps the pope determined the situation required something other than an infirm 86 year old who would increasingly be unable to leave the Vatican. I happen to think the globe-trotting and highly visible pope innovation is a good thing, but the trade-off to that is you need a pope strong enough to do that. In the modern age of instant and global media, I don’t think the Church is going to be well-served by a pope who stays in office until death but goes the last several years virtually unseen due to infirmity.
As a lifelong catholic, of course I have many thoughts on this issue. But I just wanted to comment on how wonderful this discussion has been to read. I so appreciate your site and the smart, caring people who comment here. Living in the south, after growing up in the Midwest, I am so wearing of the catholic bashing. It is so refreshing to see a conversation where all are treated with respect.
Interesting thoughts and comments here.
First, I want to echo what others have written — this post and commentary stands out as the most respectful (with one exception, but you answered him well, Kevin) I have come across in I don’t know how long, especially with respect to Catholicism. What a wonderful group of people read this website!
Pattie Dehuff, to answer your question: Catholics believe that the bread and wine are turned into the Body and Blood (both together) of Christ. The bread and wine are called species, so we say that the Body and Blood are present in both species. That means that the bread turns into the Body and Blood, and the wine turns into the Body and Blood. We believe that the Real Presence remains until the species is no longer recognizable as bread or wine. So, if you take Communion, the Presence remains with you until your stomach has broken down the bread until it is no longer bread — about 15 minutes. Same with the wine. Mystically, of course, you retain the graces until you enter a state of mortal sin. It’s very similar to taking medicine — it remains in pill form only until your stomach dissolves it, but the effects continue beyond the time that the actual pill is no longer in your stomach.
Kevin, you should not be concerned about the Hitler Youth issue. All German youths had to join Hitler Youth.
What Josef Ratzinger did shows that he had no interest. In fact he never attended any meetings. His teacher knew that he was not attending and did nothing about it.
On top of that when he was later placed in a situation that would have required firing upon “enemy” aircraft, he went AWOL.
Josef Ratzinger really is a very humble man.
Kevin,
Wondered what you think of the Malachy prophecy. Should be interesting to watch!
Refresh me on what that is. Do you have a good link to it?
Hal Lindsey and Prophecy in the News discuss it quite a bit. Also Tom Horn and Chris Putnam wrote a book about it.
What are the cliff’s notes of the prophesy?
Late to this, but:
Kevin, if you believe that Benedict should not have stepped down citing health reasons because he was elected — why would you think that he should’ve stepped down because of his status with the Hitler Youth? If the Holy Spirit guides the selection process, then is he really supposed to argue with that? Wouldn’t that be putting his own judgment over and above the will of God? (I hope that question made sense.) To me, it seems like you want to say that he shouldn’t have stepped up to the papacy because of his past, but that he shouldn’t have stepped down, either. Just curious.
Also, I did read speculation that Benedict, have lived thru JPII’s deterioration, saw such a thing as ultimately more detrimental to the papacy than any temporary scandal caused by resigning. While I do understand the idea of “till death do us part,” it also seems that his judgment is sound in that behind the scenes power plays while the pope is sick would be just as detrimental, or more so, to the office than just resigning. And remember, the last pope who stepped down is now venerated…!
I also appreciate the civil discourse you have always required on this site, Kevin, and I respect the opinions of those who post a whole lot more than most other sites where it seems like name calling and hatred are more important than provoking thought.
I agree that this post and the discussion have been very interesting. I am a Christian who sometimes attends a Catholic church. I believe there are Christians in every church I have attended. I also believe there are posers in every church I have attended.
That said, I also believe it is of utmost importance for Christians to remain spiritually linked to the truths of Jesus Christ. No matter what else you believe or the ins and outs of how you practice your faith, we MUST agree to honor and love each other because we are all His children. The time will come when we will have to rely on each other, no matter what the denomination, building, or whatever the earthly thing is; we will have to reach out through and by our faith. The enemy delights in using our differences to divide us. We must respect our differences and allow them to unite us.
Peace to all…