Ron Paul’s Devious Plan to Steal the Presidency
Up until yesterday, I really hadn’t taken the Ron Paul campaign very seriously. Most non-Paul voters probably felt like I did, and laughed him off as that “kooky Uncle” who didn’t have a chance in hell to win the Republican nomination for President.
Well, I’ve changed my mind. Big time.
Yesterday I attended the Republican organizational convention for my Senate district here in Minnesota, and what I witnessed was an organized take-over of our nomination process by Ron Paul cultists. They came to this convention with the sole intent to take over as many of the delegate seats as they could, and sadly, they succeeded.
When I arrived at the convention and took my place with my fellow precinct delegates, I quickly noticed that something was awry. As soon as the man leading the convention(the Convention Chair) began to ask if there were any motions to bring to the floor, several Paulbots lept to their feet to make motions asking to “suspend” the rules so that people who were in attendance could add their names to the delegate nominations. Before the convention, delegates had been contacted to see if we were interested in running for the State Delegate positions, and we were given plenty of time to put our names in the hat to run for these positions.
The Paulbots, who did NOT submit their names prior to the convention, were now demanding that they should added to the list of nominees that very day. This is normally outside of the rules, but the Paulbots(there were at least 50 of them spread throughout the auditorium) through a suspension of the rules, demanded that they be added to the list of nominees. It was difficult to override their votes, as they had descended en masse to this event, and the unsuspecting non-Paul delegates were confused as to what was going on!
After some manipulative moves on the floor, and by using Roberts Rules of order AGAINST the Convention Chair, they were able to add all of their names to the delegate nominations.
I’ve never seen such unmitigated rudeness at a convention before. The Paulbots would leap to their feet screaming “Point of order!” every time they thought that the chair was being dismissive of them.
The entire process was chaotic and psychotic, and the non-Paul delegates were stunned. They didn’t understand what was happening, and I tried to explain to an elderly woman from my precinct that this entire coup was PLANNED, and that the Paulbots had every intention of flooding the State delegates with Paul supporters.
In an effort to combat this craziness, I threw my own name into the ring for State Delegate, using the same rules that the Paulbots had gotten “suspended”. The way I figured it, if I could get on the State delegate list, I would take away at least ONE Paulbot.
I don’t think our convention was an isolated incident. If you read this article from the The Daily Caller you’ll see that this is happening Nationwide.
Luap Nor has got a plan, folks. If the Republican nomination goes to a brokered convention, the Ron Paul cultists plan to flood the nominating floor with Paul delegates. This is their only way to win the Presidential nomination, and they are dead serious in their intent to steal the Presidency, whether you like it or not.
I even asked one of the Paul supporters( a neighbor of mine that I happen to like a lot) who he would vote for (as a delegate) if the nomination went to someone like Romney. He told me straight up that he would NOT vote for the nominee, no matter who it was. He also told me that if they(the Paulbots) didn’t win enough delegates to win, then Ron Paul would run as third party.
So the next time you hear Ron Paul tell the media that he has no intention of running third party, you need to be aware that he is lying.
This convention dragged on for 8 hours yesterday, because the Paulbots slowed down the procedure with motions, amendments and screams of “point of order!” They have every intention of voting as many Ron Paul supporters into delegate positions as they can, and I’m guessing that they are doing this across the country. These people are very well organized, and we should no longer ignore them as the crazy cultists they appear to be, because the fact is, they mean business.
Luap Nor will do anything to win the Presidency, even if it means strong-arming conventions to do so. He’s not some “kooky Uncle” that I once joked about.
In my opinion, he’s dangerous.
Have you witnessed this kind of behavior at your convention?
What do you think we can do to combat these strong arm tactics?
But I guess it’s okay to steal delegates, eh, Ron?
Here’s the video from Denver. Very similar to my experience yesterday in Minnesota.
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I saw something similar when I was still a Democrat. I was a delegate for Howard Dean and saw the Kucinich guys do the same thing. obviously Kucinich’s supporters weren’t nearly as organized as Ron Paul but their play was somewhat effective.
Tamminator, in what way did the Paulbots use “Robert’s Rules of Order” against the convention? This information could be crucial.
They used the rules as an interruption tool.
Every time the Chair made even the slightest mistake they would jump all over him, shouting “point of order!”.
Sadly, the non-Bots had no idea what was going on. Some of them caught on, and I started running up to people and telling them, “This is a Ron Paul takeover”, but my warning wasn’t enough.
We stopped a few of their motions, but some of them just couldn’t be stopped(like allowing people to sign up for State delegate nomineeTHAT MOMENT).
I think the only way to fight back is for ALL delegates to be aware that the Ron Paultards may be present, locate them, isolate them and vote against everything they propose.
Their behavior really shook up one of the delegates from my precinct. She was so upset she was almost in tears.
The only problem with your advice is for it to work their must be a majority which doesnt exist. The process is working the way it was designed to.The big question is WHY is there a majority that supports RP in a democratic process???
Thank you, Tamminator. It sounds like they are far more organized than the Republican Party. I am not surprised. The RP is in shambles and is ripe for a takeover. Historically, it has been a stalwart defender of our founding principles and civil rights. I don’t even recognize it today. I find common ground with the Tea Party, but the Paulbots are beginning to show signs of the unions, Communists, OWSers, et al.
Layla
Do you understand how unions and communism works to bring about their agenda.Its never done thru a majority, its done thru secret vote counts and a control of the media. From what I am seeing my party has sunk to this level but they have a real hard time controlling open conventions without the majority. As a repub that has voted repub since the 84 election I am coming very close to removing the R by my name over the blatant fraud they have committed this season. Like I said I think they gave us these anti-romney clowns and an unlectable Romney to keep their choice(Bush) pure for the general election but their agenda is starting to backfire because in a second vote Paul will get the majority.
This is the saddest blog I have ever read! As a Republican, I would say that if anyone, including the chair, is in error, the proceeding should be interrupted for clarification. As to Amendments and changes (ie. your concerns about suspension), this is all a part of our process and should be embraced.
And to give slang or derogatory names to those within our party – well, I am guessing you are just of voting age, maybe a little green, correct?
Please note that I am NOT a Ron Paul supporter, and am true to our GOP. And have been several decades and will continue to be likely for many more. Honestly, Paulbots? Grow up.
As to my vote – that is up in the air considering the lack of genuineness and substance by our current frontrunners. We shall see what November brings.
Sounds like you had no problem with the fraud in Iowa and Maine but you are crying foul because the “Paul-Bots” know the rules much better than the others in attendance. I can assure you it was both legal and lawful. And, no I will not tell you why I know. Do your own research.
‘I think the only way to fight back is for ALL delegates to be aware that the Ron Paultards may be present, locate them, isolate them and vote against everything they propose.’
Good plan! We can show those Libertarians a thing or two about freedom that they’ll never forget…MrBill
Tam,athe truth is we used the same rules as everyone else has or was emailed to them like 2-3 days before the county assembly
Remember! Straw polls are for media only! They are not true results, its the delegates that matter.
2nd what part of the media’s reporting is secret? The goal isn’t to win straw polls but to win delegates… period… that is his campaign, and its been in the media… so I disagree with the sneaky process…
Denver County assembly (3rd party):
1. The chair wouldn’t recognize that the mic’s didn’t work from the beginning of the assembly for anyone except the chair
, and the chair rammed everything through that they could against the delegation
2. Some of the delegates couldn’t hear in the back of the room. It was so bad the original chairman resigned, he just walked off the stage which wasn’t explained here in the video
3. The chair adopted the old rules and nobody had a copy of the rules, so they changed the rules to control, and to confuse the assembly (or us RP people, it didn’t work, hahaha)
4. The police officers didn’t know what to do, some of the ushers/helpers had to calm them down, pretty much explained that we are a bit of a dysfunctional family
Note, you cannot tell who we are as RP delegates, w seriously we are Republicas and want the same things done all the difference is how we want to change things and how far we need to go.
I’ve always encouraged Republicans my age (30somethings) to get involved so that we can fight the Democrats and their gerry mandering lines and corruption empire.
I agree there are some rude RP supporters, some loud and interupting and annoying.
In my county assembly it went quite well, we have fresh ideas and was way better organized than 2008, compared to Denver it was pretty smooth. Compared to 2008 nobody was really prepared nor organized to take Obama. Obama has flipped many “conservative democrats” into Republicans who here in Denver area heavily supported Santorum.
However, Obama has had 5-6 years to organize the motivate zombies, his offices here in Denver never closed, and the Democrats are scared of Paul, because in his Texas district he pulled the Democrat vote for years in heavy black population for years.
The problem I see is that the unity of the Republican party in general here in CO has deteriorated and lost any momentum or base. I’m not sure about the rest of the country, I saw this in 2008, when the vast majority of representation were little old ladies…oh and they are some tough old birds!
Oftentimes I was the youngest person in the room…
Anyways, Tam I am so glad you are part of the process, and actually making your vote contribution push forwar its frustrating as hell because your excited but have no clue what is going on and, as a fell Republican I’m proud of you, in 2008 I had no clue what was going on either, I just remember sweating my guts out, being hot and sweaty, not this time around the Democrats got that building! Hahaha!
Paul’s original campaign manager died, and he got some new guys, who were more familiar, with the process (and wore suits hahaha) this time around, there was really no connection from the 2008 campaign. Everyone this time around were mostly new people, green as could be.
Up front I am 67 years old and I am a Vietnam Vet. No one could be more American than I am. Not many have sacrificed more for this country than I have. I was elected from GA to the National Convention and I will vote Ron Paul first ballot at the National Convention. So why will I do this? Because I am tired of foreign conflicts. I know why we have them and none of it is good. I had to fight in one and it was nothing more than a scam. I am tired of our Constitution being ignored. I am tried of the government being rammed down my throat every time I turn around. I know this country is on the brink of failure. I know that our currency is on the brink of failure. I know this has all been brought on by both the Democrats and the Republicans. I know that 80% of the American people are asleep and have no idea as to what is going on. You people should thank the good lord that there are people out there that do know what is going on and who are working hard to fix this giant mess our government has created. I am not getting onto any of you but I do ask that you honestly take a good look at Ron Paul. If you do you will see that he is an honest man, he truly believes in our constitution. There have been more lies spread about Ron Paul than anyone I know. I did take an honest look at him and I could find no fault with the man. Yes I sneaked by the status quo Republicans and got a ticket to the RNC. Why did I sneak by? Because I had to. I could not even mention Ron Paul name. Now why is that? Do we not still have two candidates running? Why did the Republican party throw their support behind Romney, breaking all of the rules, when two candidates were still running? Please do not blame the Ron Paul supporters. They do what they do because they have to. When you are not even allowed to mention a candidates name around the Republican GOP then my friends something is terribly wrong with the Republican Party.
That is exactly the behavior that occurred at the local caucus where I live. And, last time (2008), the Paulbots disrupted the state convention so badly that the party in the state is still in disarray. Which, in my opinion, was exactly the plan! These people are as bad as the O-bots!
I believe that a brokered convention will be the result, but believe this was the RNC plans all along and their choice is Jeb. Why else would there be the field of clowns. I also believe Paul’s camp hope was a brokered conv and a majority of second round votes.As far as what you are seeing at local,county and district conventions with a majority of RP controlling shows that either the straw vote was not on the up and up or to stay under the radar and to insure a brokered convention the Paul camp casted votes for the anti-Romney which if would be brilliant. Its the delagates that nominate and the nominee will be the one who controls the majority of delagates which is american as apple pie.
This is disturbing. How can this be controlled or better yet stopped?
It can’t be stopped. The Paul people are too smart and organized. They are using the system and the rules and the less intelligent RINOs are getting their panties in a bunch over it. Unless you have a time machine and can go back to the year 2008 and start organizing like the REAL Republicans (Ron Paul folks) have, you are out of luck.
No government or army can stop an idea whose time has come.
I am sorry for your experience. It is odd you should bring this up, a neighbor of mine is obsessed with Paul. He keeps his sign in his yard 24/7 365 days a year. We had a conversation yesterday, that HE started. Off the wall crap, could not get a word in edgewise. Counter comment and talking points abound. I actually felt a little uncomfortable, but the kicker was when he said ” we are pushing for a brokered convention, you mark my word Ron Paul will be the nominee”…perhaps you are correct in your analysis.
Did you see this piece from Fox 19 in Cincinnati? http://www.fox19.com/story/17106888/reality-check-what-do-the-real-republican-delegate-numbers-look-like
Listen closely to the part about the non-committed delegates (the ones who are able to vote for whoever they want at the convention).
Thanks for that link, HopeandChange! Everyone reading this post should watch that video.
I’m in Nevada. Our county convention was last week. Delegates got an email from the county chair, asking if we wanted to be delegates to the state convention to respond to the email. I had to leave the convention an hour before it was scheduled to be over (of course it went much longer), but heard later that the Ron Paul delegates got the email a week earlier, so they all signed up and the slots were limited for the “late-comers”. Part of the plan, evidently.
I don’t have a problem with Ron Paul’s (or anyone else’s) supporters working within the system to get him nominated/elected. It’s when they “take over” a convention or caucus and start doing things that are outside the rules that I have a problem. We’re ALL allowed to support our candidates WITHIN the rules.
What I am wondering about from the Tamminator’s experience is how the Paul people managed to take over the convention. From your description there were 50 Paul supporters. Was that a majority? How many people are delegates to the convention? I understand that people can yell and be obnoxious and aggressive and disrupt the proceedings, but unless they are a majority, how can they outvote the rest of the delegates? And who decides who comes to the district convention?
Ron Paul has tried harder to work in the system than the rest of the candidates. He would be in first place if not for the blatant disregard for him by the Pravda wing of the Republican party (the corporate media) think logically- Ron wants to end the FEDERAL RESERVE. That makes the small monopoly of people who control the American money supply VERY ANGRY. The people who are the main shareholders in the banks making up the FED invest in the companies that control the media. And now they are actually worried. This may sound off the wall to you, but look up the history of the federal reserve. look up the history of inflated paper money. The reason we are loyal to Ron is not because of the due himself. It’s because of the ideals that he espouses, and has shown that he’s committed to for 30+ years. It’s not We Love Ron Paul… It’s we love freedom and self-determination, we desire a sane monetary policy where our money actually has like, VALUE. And most obviously, we support cutting the deficit until we are paying off debt and not racking it up. No other candidate is going to balance the budget. They’re barely even mentioning it. And no other candidate is calling for sound money and a free market. Ron Paul is “extreme” by the definition of modern political context… But when it comes to cutting the debt of the nation, don’t we need someone a little “extreme”.. I.E. someone who will actually get rid of it?
I’m in Nevada also, and that isn’t what happened at our convention. Our Clark County Republican Convention was last Saturday, March 10th and as far a nominating Delegates goes, it was smoooooth sailing. The Convention started at 9am and all the Delegates had until Noon to fill up and submit their Self-Nomination form up front in a box. Anyone could go up at any time and slip this form in this box and people successfully did without a problem or disturbance.
After Lunch, someone asked if there was a tally of those who self nominated. At that time those in charge of counting weren’t finished, so every so-often someone else would ask if there was a tally and every so-often someone from the stage would provide this information without being asked so everybody would be informed. Finally, all the forms had been counted and they had a total of 1,600+ Delegates who had Self-Nominated out of a possible 2000 allowed the County by the Nevada Republican Party. Since Our County didn’t go over the 2000 allotted Delegates, there was no run off Delegate Elections. So as far as Delegates went, everything went smooooth.
Once this part was complete, it was certified and the convention went on with the business at hand of voting for our County Platform. This is the part that was complicated as each Plank of the Platform had Delegates (some Planks more than others) that wanted to make changes before going to vote. This process of back and forth drug on until it was discovered that we had lost our quorum. At this time the Convention was dismissed and those of us that remained when home.
All in all, it went smoothly. The Platform went forever to no avail. I think County Leadership bit off more than they could chew and will need to think how they can fix this for next time. Everybody should be included, but the business at had should finish also. That is the story. The end!
The Tamminator and I use to be in the SD until we got split up after redrawing district lines. Similiar things happened and in the end the Paul supporters got most if not all the delegate seats for both the state and the congressionl district. So both these senate districts will be fully represented at the state for Ron Paul. WOW. My son attended and had expressed he was Paul supporter at the Paul table. They gave him a list of Paul supporters in attendance to vote for. I got the list from him and looked it over. Even though my son announced he was a Paul supporter to the whole assembly he did not get voted in since he was not on the list. I notice that a handful of other people announced they were Paul supporters but did not get voted in if they were not on the list. Pretty much everyone on the list that they handed to Paul supporters got voted in for both the state and the congressional district. That made me really angry since the same slate of 16 people are delegates for both conventions. There were almost 120 people that showed up yesterday. I am angry that that not only did they take over the state delegation but they also went after the congressional district too. I really wanted to go to the CD convention but did not have a chance in this situation. Alot of people who have put in alot of work did not get to go. I wasted my whole day there not realizing just how rigged this all was. I knew the Paul people were organized and would get their people to the State and so I did not even run for that. But the CD also. -Give me a break.
I am not a Ron Paul supporter, but it sounds to me like we all need to take a lesson from these people – just as we need to learn from the Democrats about nasty campaign tactics. Republicans have a tendency to be like Charlie Brown and Lucy and the football. No matter how many times we are outmaneuvered, instead of getting smart and changing our own tactics, we whine about the bully who outmaneuvered us. I hope we have ALL learned something from this experience in Minnesota in dealing with our own party. Unfortunately we never seem to learn from experience when we are dealing with the Dems. Politics is a nasty business. It’s our responsibility to know the rules and use them to OUR advantage and stop being patsies for those who have already figured this out.
Would you guys listen to yourselves? What is is you can’t understand that a great number of us “Paulbots” are Republicans just like you, but I guess we’re not allowed to have our own opinion and not want to vote for another same ole same ole clown that get’s shoved in our face every 4yrs? Bush, McCain, now guys like Romney, Santorum, seriously! If being a republican means I have to blindly vote for who you like then I guess maybe I’m not a Republican and neither is the rest of my family who’s been voting Republican nearly all their lives?
The problem happens to be that RP is the biggest clown of them all.
That silly old smell should be in a retirement home.
He is dangerous. He talks the talk but he is so crazy… and he is untrustworthy.
I state this as an outsider. I do not like what I have seen of Nor Laup
I do not like things like this going on!
What can we do?
Write Paul and tell him we don’t want hijinks like this, inform the media???
Let us know and we will start a writing campaign!
Have the Paulbots been infiltrated by leftists? This is definitely not a libertarian behavior. Maybe some research should be done on their names.
A lot of them are the youngsters that got taken for a ride by Obama, last time.
First of all, I’d like to make it clear once and for all: Ron Paul’s following isn’t a cult, and his followers are not deluded. We are simply people who very much want to change what is going on in the government. We think very rationally and we research very thoroughly.
I found Ron Paul about five months ago when I read the website of each candidate. To my surprise, I found a candidate that I already agreed with on almost every subject. Even better, as I began to do further research, I found that he had backed up his beliefs with an unbelievable thirty year record of voting.
Don’t mistake me: I didn’t stop my research there. I read Newt’s book about the contract with America, as well as his paper about dealing with errant Supreme Court judges. I also did background research on each candidate. I was well informed before I made my decision.
I also found that most of the people I talked to also supported Ron Paul. You can imagine my surprise when I tuned in to debates and read news stories, only to discover that they were systematically trying to thwart his attempt at the nomination be balatently ignoring him. For example, when his numbers rose in Iowa, media (including this site) began to write stories about how little Iowa matters. They also continued to explain that Ron Paul had no chance and that his followers don’t know what they are talking about. After the vote, they would make claims about the delegate allogations that had no connection to reality, even though Paul did quite well there (13 Romney, 12 Santorum, 0 Paul). This is a balatent attempt to discourage people from taking Ron Paul seriously.
Add to that the obvious voter fraud in Iowa (also discussed on this site), and I have to wonder why you are calling Ron Paul “Dangerous” when he is trying to win the election in spite of the media bias and voter fraud (which makes winning primaries especially difficult) by educating and encouraging his followers to get involved in changing the Republican party by getting involved in the actual party process. In your post, you talk about us as though we are not even people, just mindless robots. We are fighting hard against the corruption that has seeped into the Republican party, just like (I assume) you are. We are dedicated, enthusiastic, and largely self educated (as far as politics goes, at least).
We are not stealing: we are following the rules and trying to win against all odds. This is how a Republic works, which we are guaranteed by the Constitution (Article IV, Section 4). The delegate process is what determines the government, not the popular vote. I’ll say it again: this is a Republic, not a Democracy.
One thing should be obvious by now: Ron Paul may have a hard time winning the nomination, but he would destroy Obama. Ron Paul brings groups together that the other candidates routinely alienate. Many Independents voted for Obama in the hopes of avoiding more war. These people now rally behind Ron Paul. Please don’t push them back into the arms of Obama by nominating one of the three other candidates that have all but guaranteed war with Iran. This, by the way, is why Santorum would lose against Obama: he does guarantee war with Iran on his website and in person. Such a nominee would cause many people to look past Obama’s horrible actions in light of what Santorum offers.
You deluded fool.
If you think that flooding your people to conventions in order to nominate a man who has less than 10% of the the Nation’s approval is an ethical move, than you are no better than Obama.
Ron Paul’s record is a record of a man who loads pork into bills, then votes against them, knowing that they will pass.
He is an anti-semite and an isolationist.
And he’s proven his loon credentials in every debate.
Win over Obama?
It would take 5 minutes for the Obama team to prove that Ron Paul is a racist.
Grow up, Paulbots. Your cultish worship of this man is as insane as that of the Obama followers.
How is Paul an anti-semite? Oh, right, because when Israel bombed Iraq, he was the only one who stood up for their right to act as a sovereign nation to protect themselves.
And, oh, right, he wants to end ALL foreign aid, which currently gives about 3 billion to Israel but gives 12 billion to Israel’s enemies.
Ya, sounds like a real anti-semite…. (insert eye roll here)
Israel bombed Iraq? HUH?
I’m posting these Paulbots so that you can see how demented they are.
Carry on, loon.
June 7, 1981: Iraqi Nuclear Facility Obliterated by Israel
You’re bringing up a bombing that happened 31 years ago?
So I guess you expect the Israeli’s to commit suicide now?
Careful.
Your anti-semitism is showing.
Remember, this is the candidate who has been saying the same things for over 30 years. He supported them then and he supports them now.
So Daniel Webster why did you not mention the bombing of the Syrian nuclear plant? hmmm…
This was necessary at the time because of Syria’s ties to Iran.
With RP unable to see the dangers of a nuclear armed Iran, one can only shudder at the idea that his candidacy could be successful…. NO THANK YOU…. There would be no peace in the world if this clown became POTUS.
Here are a few links that back up Tamminator’s assertion:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/former-aide-ron-paul-claimed-saving-the-jews-was-absolutely-none-of-our-business
http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/company-ron-paul-keeps_613474.html
One sign of creeping anti-Semitism is Paul’s continued references to “the Fed” and “banking.” Historically, prior to any attempted genocides of the Jews, the banks were blamed for all of the country’s economic woes. Banking and finance have been industries in which a preponderance of those employed are Jewish, so the leap between “bankers” and “Jews” is an easy one for any anti-Semite to make. Perhaps Paul doesn’t intend to create such an aura, but many of his followers ascribe to this line of thought. Couple this with the lamestream media’s continued depiction of Israel as an aggressor nation and you have the seeds sown for another holocaust, either here or in Israel. Paul is aided and abetted by Obama, of course, and this may be the reason he brings apparently disparate groups together – Jews are now the common enemy of Paul supporters AND leftists.
“One sign of creeping anti-Semitism is Paul’s continued references to “the Fed” and “banking.””
So now any person who worries about The Federal Reserve and big banks is an anti-semite?
Actually, anti-fed does not translate to anti-banking. He is against a national bank for the simple reason that it causes many problems. Many of our founding fathers also warned against the use of a national bank. He is anti-fed because the fed causes problems, such as inflation. Inflation is the equivalent of constantly stealing from anyone who has money, as well as continually giving out pay cuts. What should be going on is a state of deflation, which is where advances in technology and efficiency lower the price of goods and services. The only people that deflation affects negatively are those who make poor finantial decisions: those who borrow large amounts of money that the can’t necessarily pay back, and those who lend large amounts of money to people who can’t necessarily pay them back.
Please note that the boom and bust cycle started in ernest after the fed was formed. I personally support Israel, and hope to visit it someday. I fully expect them to attack Iran if they decide that it is a threat to them, and I think that is their right. That, however, does not mean that we need to get involved in their fight. We certainly don’t need to force our people to fight there (or pay for that fight). I’m fine with individuals contributing money voluntarily, or volunteering to leave the US and join the Israeli military.
In the New Testament, I only remember Jesus getting angry with one group of people … the money changers (bankers). It was also the only time he became violent against his fellow man. Could this be a warning that we should be cautious of those who love money? I wonder if Jesus was an anti-Semite..I mean they did crucify him.
I was born and raised in North Dakota. Maybe you’ve heard about us in the news, our extremely low unemployment, booming economy, and our surplus of money (and often our crappy weather). You know why we are not facing the same problems as the rest of America? One reason is in part due to the oil boom, but before that was making headlines, it was and is because the Bank of North Dakota is the only state owned bank in the Nation. That’s right, our Bank decides the credit rate, and where and what they put money back into in the form of loans. It does not have an account with the Federal Reserve. So while I am anti-Fed, I am pro Bank of ND.
How disappointing. I expected more than personal attacks from you.
First, I don’t believe that he has less than 10% of national approval. I know more people who support him (or would if they thought he had a chance) than the rest of the candidates combined. Also, his rallies frequently have more people in attendance than the other candidates. As I said before, the media has taken voters that would normally be voting for him away by claiming that he cannot win.
Second, there is a simple, logical reason for the earmark voting. In his own words:
“If a congressman does not submit funding requests for his district the money is simply spent elsewhere. To eliminate all earmarks would be to further consolidate power in the already dominant executive branch and not save a penny. Furthermore, designating how money is spent provides a level of transparency and accountability over taxpayer dollars that we don’t have with general funds. I argue that all spending should be decided by Congress so that we at least know where the money goes.” ~ Ron Paul; March 16, 2009
In other words, we should not spend billions of dollars on using the army to widen rivers, but if you are going to do it anyway, make sure the money that comes from Texas is spent in Texas instead of in another state.
Anti-semite and isolationist? Please. Allow this “fool” to define that for you.
Isolationism
1. Avoidance of international relations: a government policy based on the belief that national interests are best served by avoiding economic and political alliances with other countries
Ron Paul is anything but isolationist. He believes in good relations with every country, not the avoidance of them. As a very good example, we should lift economic sanctions from Cuba in order to allow trade of ideas as well as economy.
I’d like to see one example of him being an “Anti-semite”. I know he has often defended Israel’s right to defend themselves; he doesn’t believe they need the USA’s permission to attack nuclear sites that they deem threatening. I assume you are referring to the position of cutting foreign aid. It’s not just Israel who gets foreign aid: there are many countries, some which are enemies of Israel. I seem to recall selling weapons to Saudi Arabia recently, which is a form of foreign aid. So to call it “anti-semitism” is quite misleading. Also, there is no constitutional basis for foreign aid, which means it is left for the states or the individuals.
Proven loon credentials? Perhaps you could provide examples.
The Obama team will try that with any one of the four: and it won’t work. You can’t prove something that is not true. Ron Paul is not a racist, and he never was. It is unfortunate that racist articles were written under his name, but that was a mistake that he learned from. He will watch those who work directly with him like a hawk now.
I’d appreciate more facts and fewer unfounded personal attacks (whether directed at me or at Paul) please.
I had to chime in on this one… I haven’t met a single Newt or Santorum supporter in my life making these headlines all the more unbelievable. All my friends, physical and/or Facebook, support Dr. Paul, Romney, or Obama. Not a single Santorum or Newt supporter. I even know 2 people that are willing to vote for Gary Johnson for pete’s sake.
I know some Newt and Santorum “supporters”, though to call them supporters would be a very generous use of the term. “Leaners” would be more appropriate. Most of the people I know personally who support Santorum or Newt are basically picking the “least bad” candidate in their view.
Anyway, “we” shouldn’t use “ourselves” as a basis for determining the norm. People tend to have biases based on what is “normal” to them. But their “normal” could be totally different from another person. Some people are undoubtedly surrounded by Newt supporters and have never met a Ron Paul supporter.
Obviously nothing anyone can say will change your opinion, Tamminator. But I still must take umbrage with your claims and statements.
I resent your suggestion that the person whose post you responded to is a “deluded fool”, or that Ron Paul is a ‘loon”. I sense you are someone with anger issues, and I suggest you get control of yourself.
The GOP wrote the rules under which the party operates, and if you have a problem with Robert’s Rules of Order, well there is little you can do to change 130+ years of history and precedent regarding rules of order and procedure for deliberative bodies.
In any event, I understand your frustration. The supporters of Congressman Paul learned the rules of the party and of proper procedure, and utilized what they learned to maximize their influence and impact.
When people complain about them using the rules to their benefit, they sound like they are angry because they figured out how the party nominating process really works.
Doing so does not mean they have hijacked the party, which is a term I have seen used and indicates actions that were improper, illegal, unethical or immoral. If their actions were within the rules, however boisterous you may have found them, they did not act improperly, illegally, unethically or immorally.
The establishment forces of the party have not been challenged like this since the mid-to-late 1980’s when the social conservatives mobilized organized and gained control over much of the GOP. Until then, social conservatives were a minor player in GOP politics. But they learned the rules of the party, used them to their own advantage, and became a major force and constituency in the party. The supporters of Congressman Paul are simply doing what the social conservatives did 20 years ago.
I know how the GOP operates. I have been very much involved in GOP politics and campaigns since 1984. I worked as a professional political advisor on several campaigns. Typically, GOP functions are quiet, scripted affairs where the establishment forces go through the motions and reward friends, family and long time and influential supporters. They become upset when someone rocks the boat, even if they were once the boat rockers themselves many years ago. Nobody likes to have their power and influence challenged. And that is what this is all about. Power and influence. Usually, the people that have it don’t like the idea of having to share it, or worse still, see theirs diminished. Everyone had an equal opportunity to organize and to be prepared for these conventions. If you are looking for someone to be angry with, well you need do nothing more than look into a mirror.
Nest, your suggestion that Congressman Paul is an anti-Semitic is ridiculous by any standard. Would Walter Block, Rafi Farber, etc., be supporters of Congressman Paul if he was anti-Semitic?
Additionally, there is a great and vast gulf of difference between being a non-interventionist and isolationist. Congressman Paul is a non-interventionist. If you do not understand the difference, then I suggest you should spend some time enhancing your education.
And importantly, I do not worship any man and I resent your suggestion that I would. No man is perfect, and I have yet to meet any person with whom I agree 100% of the time.
Lastly, I believe my GOP credentials are every bit as impressive as yours may be, and maybe better. So please don’t pretend you are a more true or authentic Republican than I am.
^^^THIS^^^
I am an outsider. Ron Paul is most definitely a Looney Tune.
@ Daniel Webster… i just want to thank you for explaining to the non-Paul voters how it really is… i also researched all the Presidential Candidates and realized Ron Paul was the only one who made any sense to me… you wrote that all so perfectly… great job <3
Thank you, Linda. Keep researching and communicating: perhaps we will be able to turn this country around after all : )
That stupid old smell could not defeat Østupid in a chook raffle.
He is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous than Østupid.
People who follow Nor Luap are acting the same way as the people who followed Østupid. They are putting on him their own hopes and dreams.
This nonsense about ending the Federal Reserve goes to show that most people are in fact economic illiterates, having no understanding of the actual role of the Reserve.
Instead, people should be pushing for amendments to the Federal Reserve so that it has a clearly defined role in the economy. I would even suggest that people need to look at the Australian model of the Reserve Bank to see how that works.
Welcome to the fight! There are a number of us who have been watching the trend, nationwide.
The RNC is going to be a food-fight, and not a pretty one with the Bots get finished.
OMG, this sounds just like the obamabots who ram-rodded the Democratic caucuses when Hillary was running against the now Commander-in-Thief! They were terribly diabolical. Either Paul bots have gotten a clue from them at how to take things over, or the Republican caucuses have been INFILTRATED BY THE OBAMA CAMP. This is serious folks and the word needs to be passed on to those states that have yet to caucus. And I mean SERIOUS.
Yes, yes. We are the Obama camp. Remember when Obama gave his speech on cutting $1 Trillion from the budget? Or how about his brilliant speech on ending the War on Drugs? Didn’t you love the speech about ending the Federal Reserve System and its hidden inflation tax? And there was that one on how we should let young people opt out of the Social Security Ponzi Scheme. Oh, wait. He never professed any of those ideas.
People can look around for the real deal on what happened. Paul supporters (and others) called for a point of order about the schedule but were ignored. When they asked for a reading, the GOP guy does it super fast auctioneer style. You guys are saying you wouldn’t be upset by this? Come on.
It’s not hard to find many reports of establishment GOP at events like this jamming things through they way they want and railroading the people in attendance. Paul supporters are using proper Rules of Order to combat this railroading by the establishment.
Nope.
You’re lying.
I was there.
Nobody in the “GOP establishment” was trying to do anything other than run a convention.
They were bombarded with constant objections by Paulbots every time a mistake was made. Slight mistakes, not anything that was intentionally trying to hijack the convention.
That was YOUR intention, Ron Paul fanatic.
YOUR people were there to disrupt, not the other way around.
We’re now on to you. And I hope conservatives take notice.
Which conservatives are you talking about? The “conservatives” who support candidates who raise the debt ceiling multiple times, support TARP, support the Patriot Act, support NDAA indefinite detention, support the President having the power to kill U.S. citizens without transparency or due process? Are those the “conservatives” you’re talking about?
“He also told me that if they(the Paulbots) didn’t win enough delegates to win, then Ron Paul would run as third party.
So the next time you hear Ron Paul tell the media that he has no intention of running third party, you need to be aware that he is lying.”
Paul says he has no intention of running third party, so instead of that you take the word of your neighbor about Paul’s intentions over Paul’s?
Since when do you trust anything a “Paulbot” says, anyway?
After seeing you Paulbots in action, I take EVERYTHING that you say seriously.
You don’t care about what the country wants, it’s all about what YOU want, and you will deride, and override anyone who gets in your way.
I was cornered by a Paulbot at work a few months ago. The couple were on their honeymoon and I engaged with them by offering congratulations, etc. It didn’t take more than 3 minutes before the new husband turned the conversation into a Paul rant. Again, no getting a word in edgewise…even if it had been appropriate under the circumstances in a store. My thought was that they are single-minded true believers same as the Obots. Dangerous and I don’t care which party he professes to.
What happened in the Tamminator’s SD happened in our combined SD 4 years ago by libertarians and Paul supporters. Our new SD changed the rules and did not allow for add on’s yesterday and were very strict about it. So that was a good thing. I have already talked to someone about changing the rules again to not allow for some of the things that happened in my SD yesterday. I know some of the people who put the ‘who to vote for delegate list’ together and made sure Ron Paul supporters showed up and voted from the prepared list. They are libertarians and true conservatives. They are sick of the established GOP and are trying very hard to get their voice heard. I get it. I wish I had known that there was no way for anyone else but those on the list to become a delegate to the state and CD conventions. I would not have wasted a beautiful Saturday listening to boring rules and arguments all day. I missed 2 very important things I would rather have done. What really makes me mad is that the Ron Paul people tend not to put in the grunt work to make things work but came in and basically hijacked the convention yesterday from those who have put in hours and frankly years of grunt work and took the ‘honored’ delegate positions from very hardworking people in the Republican party. Not that should be a qualification but if the Ron Paul people keep this up will they do the grunt work as disgusted Republicans quit.? So basically out of 120 people that showed up, only 16 delegates could be chosen but those same 16 people got chosen in 2 separate elections for both conventions coming up in April. All Ron Paul people.
Despite this Bad, we cannot lose sight of the fact that many of us see that this is a very important election. Many of us are taking very seriously that we have to get Obama out of office. I am glad people are taking this seriously and actually appreciate (to a degree) the efforts of Ron Paul people. I do not like how it came down in our SD but I do appreciate their fight. I just hope they fight hard for the eventual nominee whoever that may be.
I do not like how the Ron Paul people went after Hermain Cain on his facebook and all the constant negative comments on any stories about Hermain Cain. But I do not like how the established GOP go after Ron Paul either. I like many of Ron Paul’ s fiscal ideas but I cannot imagine him governing. I give him alot of credit in his consistant and persistant educating and waking up of people. I do not believe he will get the nomination but I admire that he has blazed a trail. Maybe Rand Paul will take up the cause and I think he may be a more viable presidential candidate one day. I just wish Ron Paul’s supporters were not so obnoxious to the other candidates and ‘fellow’ conservatives. They are way to wired. They need to grow up and put in the real work that needs to be done to make elections possible and quit being so immature. (Perhaps these are some of the characteristics that people find Ron Paul supporters to be ‘Obama-like’)
I think that once in, Newt actually has the best skills to get things done in Washington but his candidacy is not going very well.
In the end, I hope that no matter which candidate we were supporting, we can go into this fall supporting the nominee. None of the 4 candidates left excite me much, but it just does not matter. One of them has to go up against Obama and he will need all of our votes. We cannot have Obama back in and that is the bottom line. I will work on getting over my hard feelings on this and will vote for the whoever the GOP nominee is. I hope the Ron Paul people will do the same if RP is not nominated.
“I just wish Ron Paul’s supporters were not so obnoxious to the other candidates and ‘fellow’ conservatives. ”
Which “conservatives” are those? The ones who support candidates who support the Patriot Act, NDAA indefinite detention, and Paul Ryan budget plans that add five trillion to the debt the first 10 years and don’t balance the budget until the year 2063?
Speaking of Newt, he just said we should leave Afghanistan and reassess the entire region and that “We need to understand that our being in the middle of countries like Afghanistan is probably counterproductive.”
What a crazy foreign policy!
I would like to respectfully respond to you. I am a RP supporter in WA state. I am also a delegate. I have worked my rear end off for the last year to understand the process, but not just to get him elected, but to
Change my party platform. We are trying to change the way votes are handled; they were not secret ballots–we had to vote right next to our name and address, and the votes are not counted in front of the public. We also want to call for an audit of the FED. Neither of those things are wrong. I think every American should be as informed as we are. I wish every American had a passion to learn about their government. As for RP’s supporters being whack-a-doodles… Sure.. Some are pretty freaking weird. However, I have met some aggressively weird romney, santorum, Gingrich, and Obama supporters. In fact, at both of the town halls I went to for Dr. Paul, there were many supporters of other candidates there checking out the competition, if you will, and there was no animosity, just awesome conversations. Also, when I tried to get appointed as a precinct officer, I was told by my county GOP “if you are a RP supporter, absolutely not, they have no place here”. I ran my precinct caucus anyway, since we didn’t have a PCO. And I gave every person ample time to talk about their candidate, and I discussed mine last. I also asked if I could relieve any concerns or
Misconceptions about RP and we had a great discussion. We aren’t all jerks and I don’t think it’s nice for ppl to group us that way. I could say the majority of Romney supporters are rude, rich, buttholes— and they have been– but that doesn’t mean that everyone, or even the majority of his supporters are. All we Ron Paul supporters want is To go back to checks and balances, back to the constitution. It is a living document that the current administration has trampled on. And I have always been a republican.
Katie I appreciate the demeanor and thoughtfulness of your post.
I am personal friends with supports and detractors of all four GOP candidates and, in my opinion, none of them are crazy nor uninformed. It’s just that they each know different things about different candidates, and most importantly, they each have different “primary issues” which make whichever candidate “their guy”.
A lot of the comments flying around are critical of the pro-RP or anti-RP folks based on nothing more than assumptions or perceptions. So your post is duly noted and well appreciated.
I may not agree with your stance on things but I do appreciate your respect of others. I found your comment to be very well written, which was refreshing after reading the seemingly under educated rants of others who resorted to name calling. Thank you.
Respectfully
I know it is disappointing for you to not be a delegate after serving the party for so long. I hope you will have another chance in the future.
The Ron Paul supporters are not concerned about getting the honor of the delegate positions as much as they are concerned about the future of this country. I do understand your disappointment, though.
I have not been here for a long time. I do not remember why I left. However, the anti-Dr. Paul sentiment here will have me not coming back. Obviously, Dr. Paul is not qualified to be president (like the others are, ha!), but he is the only candidate whose principled stands and history are for getting government out of our lives. I want more freedom and less government in my life.
Steve, really you have to be joking to claim that Ron Paul has principled stands.
I am an outsider looking in and I do not agree that this is the case.
This is the man who votes to bring home the pork to his home county… but he will make statements that contradict his own actions. That is not how a man of principle behaves.
Also, he is a loon when it comes to Foreign Policy… and yes in my country, where the position of Foreign Minister has gone to someone equally as looney as Ron Paul… I do care about what can take place.
This is no time to have someone who is the equivalent of Jimmy Carter in the White House.
The system was gamed by the RNC to bring this to a brokered convention which is why Rick and Newt are still in this race and need to be there thru April. But their plan is falling apart to bring their choice in to get the nomination with a second vote because for some reason Paul’s numbers at delagate conventions are controlling. So again I ask.Why is Paul’s numbers so high when the straw vote didnt reflect that? Either the straw vote was not on the up and up or to insure a brokered convention Paul’s camp has helped the other candidates which would be absolutely brillant. Complaining that Paul’s camp is stealing the delagates without taking into account how this is happening makes no sense.
I am not a Paulbot, but I cannot stand the other 3 candidates (maybe save Santorum). Paul has had this plan the whole time. Rachel Madow had the guts to report on it twice.
While I hate the caucuse system and it should be only primaries, as has been said on this forum, Paul is taking advantage of the system. And if there is not a Paul on the ticket or something like Paul Sec. Treasury, Romney (or Santorum) has no chance of beating Obama. Paul is expanding the republican base.
Wow, that’s a lot of corruption going on there. Here on our ballot tomorrow we actually have the delegates names there with their candidate so you have to vote for the candidate as well as the delegate. Sample ballots went into the newspaper several weeks ago and is one of the longest I’ve seen in quite a while.
Had one Ron Paul supporter run out in front of my car last week not caring that she was crossing a major intersection. But those are the supporters…I should have pressed the accelerator.
With all respect I have to say it’s kind of funny to me whenever anyone says in effect “It must be a media conspiracy to ignore my candidate—all MY friends love him/her too!” Just because you have a wide acquaintance of like-minded individuals doesn’t make your opinion mainstream. Ron Paul could be the best candidate in the history of the world and there are just too many people who perceive him as the crazy geriatric uncle who escaped from the attic. Sorry, but it’s the sad truth.
Even Abe Lincoln probably wouldn’t win an election today because he wouldn’t be telegenic enough. There are too many idiots who vote based on very superficial criteria. A co-worker of mine way back when told me without batting an eye she voted for Clinton because she thought it would be nice to have a younger looking first lady after Barbara Bush with her white hair. Even telling her why Mrs. Bush’s hair was white in the first place and why she refused to color it didn’t matter. She wanted a younger first lady, period. This is what we have to work with, people! I personally agree that Newt would be the best president of our remaining 3 options, but can’t lose sight of the fact that any one of the is better than what we have in the White House today. I’m prepared to hold my nose and get in line for whoever heads up the ticket. If that means Mitt because of his “presidential look” and nice hair so be it. We simply can’t afford to lose this one.
Newt was kicked out of the House for ethics violations; I fail to see how he would be the best president. Santorum follows the money and will do their bidding. And Mitt, with his presidential look and nice hair are his only qualities for being president? Its time people wake up, the GOP and the Democrats are the same, the left and right hands of the status quo, the bankers and the military industrial complex that owns the media. The people that make money from war, they surely don’t want the good times too end.
I’ve been a Republican all my life, and I’m sick and tired of voting for the “lesser of two evils”. I’m voting for Ron Paul, for my kids, so that they might enjoy the liberties and freedoms I had when I was growing up so long ago. America used to be the land of opportunity, where people wanted to come to start a new life, to live the dream. That dream is being squashed, as Obama tramples all over the Constitution, taking away our rights that we take for granted. The 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments have been all wiped away in the past 4 years.
I don’t know who it is your complaining about here Tamminator, we’re the Republican party. We’re the ones who want smaller government, who want the Federal government out of our lives, who want to protect our property rights, especially from the UN! We want to preserve our 2nd Amendment rights. We want to end the warmongering, the killing of our sons and daughters, and the nation building. We want peace and prosperity. We want fewer regulations, that cause “Made in America” to be way to cost prohibitive. We want our Dollar to be worth something, so that we can buy what we need on fixed incomes. We want to get America back on track, aren’t we in agreement here?
We are the people, the people who are fighting to save our Republic. The banks, the military industrial complex, and the democratic controlled mainstream media (owned by the military industrial complex) are our enemies. If you’re listening to their propaganda on the Republican candidate they support, your giving in to their agenda. They will fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo, for one simple reason, they’ve got too much to loose. They’ve been getting fat off our tax payer money. They’ve been getting trillions in bailouts on their bad investments. They’ve been profiting from the wars, and we’re paying the bill.
Ron Paul is the only Presidential candidate with the guts to stand up to them. Its time to open your eyes and see, he is the only one that will beat Obama and actually do something to reverse the mess.
Its not going to be fixed by one person though, and we’re wrong to think that once person can fix it all. Ron Paul has started a revolution, an intellectual revolution. People are getting involved. They’re realizing that the media; the newspapers and the TV, are pushing a government’s agenda, Obama’s. There is nothing that would guarantee 4 more years for Obama, than Mitt Romney being the Republican candidate.
You see, we’re in violent agreement.
Now, regarding some issues that we may not agree on. I served in the military for 6 years. War is and always should be the ABSOLUTE last option, after all other options have been fully exhausted. War should ONLY be considered if there is a direct threat to the United States. NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances does the President of the United States have the authority to declare the United States at war with anyone. The United Nations does not have any authority whatsoever to declare these United States at war with anyone. This is very, very serious. There is no “good” war, only death. Our debt is the single most dangerous threat to our national security. Our military is the strongest, and will continue to be with President Paul. It won’t be spread out all over the world. It won’t be used to fuel animosity against us.
Lastly, I can not stand it when people call Ron Paul supporters drug users or anything to that extent. I don’t use drugs, my family doesn’t use drugs. Ron Paul doesn’t want people to use and abuse drugs. Get off the idea that ALL Ron Paul supporters want is legalized drugs.
Stopping the Federal war on drugs does make quite a bit of sense though. The number of innocent children that have died here in the United States from this “war” is atrocious. Drug money fueling the gangs and cartels, the ATF providing the weapons, and the bankers laundering the money, all perpetuating the illegal drug trade. Sounds quite a bit like alcohol prohibition, doesn’t it. That didn’t work. The war on drugs doesn’t work either. Instead of filling our prisons with non-violent “criminals”, they should be going to community based support groups that provide love and care for these people to get them off the drug habit. Make drugs legal and they become less desirable. Make them regulated and they become far more safer and lives of children will be saved. I don’t want illegal drug pushers targeting my kids. Put them out of business for good. Ron Paul is the only candidate with the guts to even bring this conversation up. The other candidates steer clear of the issues that really affect all of us.
We’re in this together. Please take an honest look at Ron Paul and tell me you wouldn’t trust him with the lives of your children. I certainly do.
Preach it! I couldn’t have said it better if I wanted to.
I think first it’s important to distinguish between Ron Paul the man/candidate, and “Ron Paul for President”, the campaign. As with any presidential campaign, it’s impossible for RP to oversee every aspect of his campaign in every part of every state. This means that your personal experiences, or even the experiences you seem to share with other highly intelligent, well-informed RP supporters on DailyPaul or some other site, are not necessarily representative of the RP supporters with which Tamminator had personal interaction.
I am neither a Ron Paul critic, nor a supporter. I admire his consistency, and I agree with the majority of his positions, but I do feel that some of his positions are unrealistic on the timelines he suggests.
For example, it is absolutely true that the U.S. is (and has been) underwriting the security of the world for decades. In essence, we subsidize the mistaken theory that European-style social democracy/socialism can actually work by providing de facto protection for those countries with the blood of our youth and the sweat of our brows. Were it not for our implied protection, Europe would be much more responsible for protecting itself and, therefore, unable to sustain its entitlement tendencies.
However, changing Europe’s mentality to one of protecting itself is not something that can reasonably happen in a single year. I believe it would take at least 8-10 years at a MINIMUM to effectively transition all U.S. troops back home and close down our bases. To do so in a single year or even a single term is to risk serious chaos throughout the world, and though I’m sure some would disagree vehemently with my assessment, such chaos throughout the world would definitely be a bad thing for us.
It has taken decades if not a full century of questionable policies to get the U.S. into its current situations both at home and around the world. In my opinion, to assume that we can get out of those positions in the matter of just a few years is probably not realistic. Especially when considering much of those changes will require Congressional support.
There’s a reason that politics is compared to sausage making — it’s messy. Regardless of what anyone things about Ron Paul, there is no doubt he is a consistent visionary, and I believe he deserves respect for that. But being a visionary alone is insufficient. My question is, how will Ron Paul “get the sausage made” if/when he became President? Without a supermajority in Congress, he will only be able to do so much. Even if the Republican party did manage to get a supermajority, it is unlikely that every one of them would be solidly behind Ron Paul’s agenda.
That would leave Ron Paul to govern primarily by veto. Which leaves me with the question, can Ron Paul’s ideology truly be realized with only a veto pen? Perhaps you can shed some light on this because it’s not something I see asked or answered often when talking about Ron Paul. To what extent will Ron Paul require the cooperation of Congress to get his policies through and, if he does not have the cooperation of Congress, how successful can the overall agenda of President Ron Paul actually be?
Full disclosure: I am not supporting any individual candidate at this time. My preferred candidate is not running. I ask these questions simply to learn more, not to put down RP or promote any other candidate, but simply because I find myself primarily interested in the ability of the candidate to execute his ideology. This can help all of us make more informed decisions about who to support, why, and with what level of commitment.
Great attempt at being profound and considerate while actually promoting an idea against Dr. Paul. The answer to your inquiry is simple. The president is not king and has to work through/with congress. The success of any president’s policies is also dependent on he political makeup of the congress. Don’t forget media input. So for instance – President Paul has a law introduced to audit the Federal Reserve. The congress would either vote it up or down. If failed, at least the general public would know who wa for and against an audit. Same goes for a parallel/competing currency based on commidities. Same goes for ending certain federal departments.
Next time just say I don’t support Paul and have an unrealistic vision of him doing harm to the country as if he had the power of a king. And after that – go jump in a lake.
Apologies for typos but this laptop keyboard doesn’t work very well and I dont want to spend time editing for a “let me play wolf in sheeps clothing” person like you.
Replies like yours are a big reason why people tend to be suspicious of Ron Paul supporters. You can’t seem to handle even thoughtful criticism and legitimate questions about your candidate. Instead of engaging in debate and addressing a perfectly legitimate question (will Ron Paul deal with Congress and, if so, how?), you accuse me of disguising my question as an attack on Paul (it was not meant as an attack), make the almost-laughable assertion that I somehow expected him to act as a king (exactly the opposite), suggest that I think his policies will damage the country (it’s his timeline expectations I take exception with, not the policies themselves) and tell me to go jump in a lake. This does not further the dialog or win supporters to your cause.
I am not a Ron Paul supporter, but neither am I a Ron Paul detractor. Actually, I should rephrase. I’m a supporter of Ron Paul, but not necessarily of “Ron Paul for President”. I’ll absolutely support him if he earns the nomination, but he hasn’t yet. I actually agree with at least 90% of Ron Paul’s positions, and would probably agree with 99% of them if I weren’t also realistic about the nature of politics in this country and the nature of the world as it presently sits.
Ron Paul, and his supporters, often talk about “the way things should be”, or “how things should have happened”. I get that, totally. And with significant consistency, I agree. But the way things “should have happened” is NOT the way things ACTUALLY happened. And now we have to deal with the scenario we have.
For example, lamenting that the FED should never have been created is not, in an of itself, a practical, realistic plan on how to responsibly eliminate the FED. Saying that we never should have started maintaining a military presence around the world could be absolutely legitimate, but that alone is not a plan on how to realistically draw down global troop deployments and close bases.
I realize that Ron Paul has plans on how to do these things. But with few exceptions, these plans NECESSITATE Congressional support. To simply wash over that consideration is, in my opinion, a little short-sighted. A President Ron Paul couldn’t even introduce legislation to Congress. He can propose it, but would rely on a friendly Congress to even get introduced, then friendly committees to even make it to the voting stage, and then a friendly Congressional leadership in order to actually bring the measure to a vote.
None of this is to say that Ron Paul would make a bad president. The same exact question is equally fair applied to all four candidates. None of them can arbitrarily impose their ideologies, nor would we want them to. But therein lies the rub — Congress is a necessary part of the process.
So I pose the question to you again: how would a President Ron Paul work with Congress to advance his plans for America? How will he react when faced with Congressional opposition? Will he stick to his principles and undoubtedly make enemies, or will he compromise with Congress, thereby watering down his principles and potentially disappointing the supporters who expect him to be 100% conviction and 0% compromise?
I don’t see how posing this perfectly legitimate question makes me a detractor of Ron Paul.
Excuse me, but Newt was actually innocent of those “ethics” violations. Nice try…. but people need to read the truth over that situation because Newt was set up by another person. He was innocent of the claims.
….I would hope that Kathleen Gee will comment on this thread.
Thanks for remembering me, Nick.
I don’t really want to get into this with Tammy (she’s entitled to her opinion). But I will say that if someone is surprised that Ron Paul is leading in the race for delegates, it’s because
A) They get their “news” from the Democrat-Controlled Media
B) They don’t understand what delegates are, or how to become one
C) They don’t know how the caucus system works
D) They don’t know Robert’s Rules of Order
E) All of the above
Ron Paul supporters get their news from the Internet, their neighbors, and their own two eyes, not Democrat journalists. And we have spent the past four years learning how to become delegates, and how to run meetings according to Robert’s Rules.
And now we show up to participate in the delegate process in far greater numbers, and we get more people to vote for us when we run for delegate slots.
Getting more people to vote for us means we win.
It’s not rocket science.
And when we see old-guard Cocktail Party GOP operatives trying to shove Mittens Romneycare down our throats, we stand up to them, and we use the rules that they themselves set up to defeat them.
Simple as that.
If you want to defeat Obama in November, you should be thanking us.
The Democrat-picked fake conservative, Santorum, can’t get nominated — he’s not even on the ballot in enough states. Mittens can’t get independents or the youth vote. They’re both completely unelectable.
Only Ron Paul beats Obama in a head-to-head matchup. Only Ron Paul can steal away Obama’s youth vote. Only Ron Paul wins among independents. All the exit polling confirms this. Ron Paul has one every single election in the under 30 demographic. Only Ron Paul can draw 3,000+ people to rallies. Only Ron Paul has a massive volunteer base. Only Ron Paul is the #1 choice of the military when it comes to donations.
If you’re one of those people who are willing to vote for anything with an R after its name, just to win, it’s time for you to start supporting Ron Paul. But only if you want to win in November. If winning is optional for you, please feel free to vote for John McCain II, and his running mate, Bob Dole 2.0.
I couldn’t agree more. The only thing I would add is that Ron Paul would be the best President out of the five. Can you imagine Dr. No with the power of Veto? Not a single piece of unconstitutional legislation would get by him. Combine that with a Vice President that helps get important reform passed and you have the receipe for the best term ever.
Say what you will about Ron Paul but he is by far the most conservative candidate. He is guilty of trying to follow the constitution and the the masses (even you, possibly) have been herded like cows into believing we need to be all things to all people. We are a devout nation with the opportunity to achieve greatness once again. I am not trying in any way to attack you here on this forum as I see no point in it. It will only divide us more. However, I would encourage and even challenge you take a look at the quotes of George Washington regarding foreign policy. Look and Ben Franklin’s quotes on freedom and liberty as well as Thomas Jefferson. I would hope that we could agree that these men were truly great Americans . I think you will find what they said to be in contrast to the state of our nation today. If you are as concerned as I am about the status then this will be a welcomed opportunity to gain perspective. Remember, those who are not aware of history are doomed to repeat it.
Please do not confuse the passion of those who do support Ron Paul for rudeness. It it indignation against a system designed to silence the voices that have a right to be heard. Are there exceptions? Yes, in every camp there is. We need to unite for this country. To a man, please explain how we can spend our way out of debt! If you are conservative, is it conservative to spend money you don’t have? And even worse, is it conservative or even practical to borrow from a communist China? Please think about that. God Bless.
If your passion is being interpreted as rudeness, it almost certainly is.
Sorry, Paul supporters are just one step away from the same type of people who were obama supporters, if they’re not already the same. I wouldn’t put it past the democraptic party to be infiltrating. Paul supporters, like obama supporters, are one the biggest reasons I could never support either candidate. Being a former Hillary supporter I will never forgive how the obama camp treated her and us. I jumped ship to vote Republican and have never regretted it. Now I see the Paul supporters messing up the chance to get obama out of the white house and I just go crazy.
I get that you hate Obama. Not sure why. Is it just because his supporters were mean to poor Hillary?
Really, I am at a loss here. Romney has 95% of the same policies as Obama.
And Paul supporters are nothing like Obama supporters – Obama’s support was based upon charisma and vague promises. Paul’s supporters believe not just in him, but more importantly in the ideas he espouses – specific, concrete ideas. You might disagree that freedom is the answer and government is the problem, but it isn’t about Paul. It’s about a GOP organization that long ago abandoned its conservative, small government principles in favor of winning and people thinking that the message Paul espouses may be our last chance to get that back before Big Government establishment types in BOTH PARTIES drive this country off the centrally-planned cliff.
I am not a democrat. Not even close. But I agree that what happened to Hillary is wrong, specifically what the media did to her. And now I see the media also attacking Paul, but by blatantly ignoring him, since his record is so clean they can’t dig up dirt on him. You’re mistaken in thinking that Paul can’t win. None of the other candidates are Obama alternatives because their policies don’t differ hardly at all from him. Ron Paul is the ONLY Obama alternative.
It is the passionate desire to get Obama out of the White House that is fueling the almost fanatic Paul support. While Obama’s supporters backed him based on a pretty face and eloquent speeches. Ron Paul’s supporters love him because of the ideals and policies that he represents and because his record indicates that we can actually trust him. All you have to do is look at him and listen to him talk to know that it isn’t looks or speeches that have the people going wild.
But what he says, though not as pretty-sounding as the other candidates, gives people hope for a better America.
Actually, it is spin to claim that RP has a clean record. He is the one who says one thing but acts differently.
A good example is pork barrel projects. This is something that our countries have in common. Ron Paul would not vote against the practice and on top of that he has a record of bringing home the bacon. That is not what I call a clean record.
There are other inconsistencies to consider. For example, when RP was approached before Østupid was inaugrated, regarding the fact that Østupid is not a NBC by virtue of the fact that his putative father was a British citizen, meaning he has dual citizenship, RP point blank refused to do anything or say anything about it. In other words, he is just as complicit as everyone else in your Congress who ignored the facts.
RP is nothing but a typical politician. He has just as big a dynastic desire for his son as Harry Reid. The man is 75 years old. He knows he doesn’t have a prayer but he is merely garnering name and recognition and support for his son, Sen Rand Paul. Why do you think Rand Paul said he would be “honored” to be VP? Don’t kid yourselves, people…it is merely a means to an end.
Bottom line!
“Why do you think Rand Paul said he would be “honored” to be VP?”
Where do you guys get these lies?
Rand Paul never said he would be “honored to be VP”, but he said he would be “…honored to be considered…” for the VP position.
That does not equate to *I would be Romney’s VP.* If anything, he would feel honored (…who wouldn’t?), but he would still turn the offer down.
I just watched the video. Are you sure this wasn’t taken at the Nevada State Repub Convention in 2008? It is PRECISELY what went on. Seems as though the Paul-bots now have been trained nationwide. Good grief.
This is too close to the Dem R&B committee meeting in 2008. Sickening. I can’t stand it.
I did hear one “analyst’s” opinion that Paul would not run as the 3rd party spoiler so as not to ruin Rand’s future chances. One can hope he fades into the background. He has a few good ideas but those are out weighed by crackpotitis.
Let’s all follow Newt and build a moon base for fun!
From what i have been reading in about 3 dozen conventions Paul’s camp has been getting about 90% of their people as delagates .About half are in states with a lot of unbound delagates but even the bound are getting filled with Paul’s camp. If Rick or Newt drop out these delagates will become unbound allowing a first round vote for Paul. By my calculations if Rick stays in thru April we will have a definate brokered convention with most the unbound delagates voting for Paul. The only way that Paul wont get the nomination is If Rick and Newt were to drop out before April allowing Mitt to get a majority of 1st round votes. Atleast Paul polls 2nd against obama in most polls and 1st in a few
“the Ron Paul cultists plan to flood the nominating floor with Paul delegates. This is their only way to win the Presidential nomination…”
News flash: It’s the only way to win the nomination.
They may be rude, but they are playing by the rules. It’s understandable that you’re upset, given that they were successful with their unorthodox, unexpected but highly organized and rule-abiding tactics. Nevertheless, you do yourself and the general political discourse a disservice by stooping to name calling and making false accusations of “stealing.”
They’re not accusations. They’re FACTS.
I was there. I saw it.
But I know that ethics and morals mean nothing to Ron Paul worshippers.
You’re just like leftists: The ends justify the means.
It doesn’t matter anyway, because there are not enough open delegate seats for Paul to win the Presidential nomination no matter how unethical you Paulbots are in stealing those seats.
How funny.
You and the rest of the MSM have blacked out Ron Paul from the beginning of the race. You have helped steal his votes and have labeled him with all kinds of nasty names.
Now that Ron Paul’s campaign has bested you and your little ploy, all you can do is name call and boo-hoo.
You made this happen and now you can lie in it.
Dear Tamminator,
Here is the convention I was at in 2008, and witnessed with my own two eyes. This was a Republican Convention in Nueces County that took place in Corpus Christi, TX. This chairman added all his buddies as delegates at the county convention who were not even present at the precinct convention!! This is cheating.
Watch the whole video and listen for yourself. Obvious Cheating.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-fARjv3tFk
This Chairman and his rail-roaded convention nominated McCain in 2008, which helped Obama get elected.
What you witnessed is called Righteous Indignation. How do you think I felt in 2008 when I had to see this happen, and then watch Obama get elected because these old-farts cheated???
These people have the right to be Angry in 2012 for the Injustice they got in 2008. You see???
What you saw today is Righteous Indignation.
Respectfully.
Paul Bot Plan
“Ron Paul Secretly Won the Caucuses”
by David Weigel – February 8, 2012
“…For this to stick, Paul’s activists have to show up at the next votes — small affairs, not much media, happening in March — and control the delegate process. Then they have to show up at conventions and repeat it. This is actually doable…”
- David Wiegel
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/02/08/ron_paul_secretly_won_the_caucuses.html
Maine, Iowa, Nevada, Alaska, North Dakota, and who knows what other states had foul play from pro-Romney/Santorum GOP leadership manipulating the votes. Why do you think NV, IA, and ME GOP chairman have all resigned? Paul voters have had their votes stolen from them, so now we steal them BACK! The GOP needs to realize that the only chance of replacing Obama is through Ron Paul and his independent/blue democrat support. If the media had treated him fairly and reported pro-Ron Paul stories proportional to the Rick/Mitt/Newt stories, this nomination would already be handed to Paul, and Obama would be shakin in his boots. Paul’s already beating him in the polls, imagine once Paul is the only Republican in the news facing off with Obama. America will be back on track in NO TIME!!!
Dr. Paul has been on the short end of ridiculous voter fraud. I think it serves the state conventions right that these people are getting their voice heard for once.
~ sincerely, a “Paulbot”
Is it really stealing if we’re following all of the rules? Republicans don’t always want to follow their own rules, but they must recognize a point of order under Robert’s Rules and I applaud the Ron Paul supporters for making sure the rules were followed. Only Ron Paul has a chance to beat Obama and we’ve got to save the country somehow.
Dr Paul has a workable plan to restore our economy to health, while preserving benefits for the poor and those who have become dependent on the federal government. The author of this article should educate him/herself on economics and Dr Paul’s positions, rather than hurling childish insults and complaining that they got out-smarted by the Paulites.
Dr Paul is not an economist, and as one who has a degree in Economics, I beg to differ that RP has anything to offer.
This is the man who refused to stop the habit in the Congress of adding pork to legislation. In fact he has a reputation of bringing home the pork. As such I cannot see how he could have a plan.
If you were talking about Paul Ryan, then I would agree that there was a plan… but RP is quite vacuous. He has no plan.
tamminator,
You maybe should take some of that passion you display and use it to learn some facts about the man you badmouth. Your opinion is valid, but your ignorance invalidates it. You may not like Dr. Paul or his supporters, but you should at least be accurate in what it is you don’t like. As of what I have read so far from you, you actually know nothing about the man except what you have seen on tv. Truth is power, ignorance is bliss. Take your choice.
Everyone,
Enough with the bickering. The man is not in it for himself. Please watch the following video, and comment away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifJG_oFFDK0
Awesome video…ty very much!
Whoa
You guys should all be ashamed of yourselves….. you are mad at people for becoming involved in the political process, are you all statists? “Oh No…. cannot have these disgusting kids causing a disturbance… I must get home, Glenn Beck is on the”
Do you think everyone supported revolting against Britain before the revolution? Surprisingly no, many Americans did not care either way … or, even worse, actually supported the status quo of international statism. HOWEVER, there was a tireless minority who fought against the establishment and won us our freedom. Trust me, there were people saying “just be obedient, don’t want to cause a disturbance now….” You people who call yourself freedom loving people have a problem with enthusiastic, involved citizens wanting to be heard?
I would agree if these people were going against the rules…. but TAMMINATOR, you are the one who is lying. They KNOW the rules and they USE them against the system. In your own words, causing a “disturbance” is hardly what’s going on. Whats going on all over the country is that honest, hardworking Americans who support Dr. Paul for President are being excluded from the delegate process on purpose. There is election fraud all over the place, Iowa, Maine, Nevada, yet, this is what you find as an outrage. Please, TURN OFF FOX!! These people have every right to challenge the system that is destroying and bankrupting our country. I have many friends who are becoming involved in politics, gaining signatures, making calls, traveling…. pure political enthusiasm every other candidate in the world wishes they had from their supporters. They ARE respectful, honest, law abiding citizens who know the rules better than any one else and follow them quietly, unless they are getting screwed.
In my opinion, if you DONT support Ron Paul… then you support Barack Obama because Mitt Romney is the same as him. Bail outs, war mongering, destroying our civil liberties, destroying our currency through Keynesian economic principals, socialized health care, establishment backed (Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Citigroup, etc.) Spewing out theatrical lines to please whomever they are speaking with. They are ALL the same…..
You should actually look at what Dr. Paul supports because you’ll come to find…. if your conservative, that his principals are more conservative than any one running, he is honest and not bought by lobbyists, consistent for 30 years. People are this devoted for a reason… so go ahead, call us “cultist.” I am happy to be apart of a “cult” that supports following the constitution, sound money, peace, and freedom. God, what terrible things to value!
Dr. Ron Paul 2012 or STFU
1) Maybe they didn’t get a chance to put their names in the hat because the GOP Establishment tried to avoid letting Ron Paul delegates in.
2) “Point of order” is a legitimate call if you feel the rules are not being followed and have not been voted down. Why should anyone be upset at another person for calling such a measure?
3) Yeah, Paul supporters were trying to get as many delegates as they could. You are telling me you weren’t trying to do that for your guy? I find THAT to be ludicrous. “I want Santorum to win, but I’m not going to try to get delegates for him or anything.”
4) One supporter claims Paul will run third party and so Paul is then lying? I claim Gingrich will run third party if he doesn’t win. Clearly, he will now, because some bloke said he would.
5) Your video is extremely manipulative by showing only one side, and not what was going on before or after – maybe there were rules being ignored that legitimized shouting for a point of order? I don’t know, you only showed a minute or so of video. Strangely, that’s generally a liberal tactic to show the Tea Party is racist or violent or something.
6) Yeah, Paul supporters wouldn’t vote for Romney. Can you honestly blame them? They see no difference between Romney and Obama on the issues they care about (the NDAA, the Fed, etc.) Santorum is even worse for these libertarians, because he is basically on a crusade to purge the libertarian small government influence on the Republican Party entirely (he’s said so himself!).
Im so relieved that there are some well informed RP supporters on here defending him rightfully.
“The mind is like a parachute, it only works if its open.”
Our nation is going bankrupted, we have hundreds of bases in 130 countries, trying to control the world with the military industrial complex….Our freedom is being taken away! Wake up…There is an agenda for a new world order and it has been confirmed by many congressman and even some media have acknowledged it. Our country and its values are being taken away right in front of our eyes and they’re wide shut with apathy, manipulation, and/or deception/misinformation. People please stop listening to the news and research for yourselves. Unless you want to be a blue pilled sheop. You owe it to your family and your country to search for the truth always. And hold on to your liberties. Fight for them peacefully and positively. Before they are all traded for misconceived security in a brilliantly planned self-manifested never ending war called terrorism.
I read this entire page and the only people who were not name calling were mostly the ‘Paulbots”. I take great pride in being an informed voter and I also support Ron Paul. I never met the man, nor have I ever been involved in politics. I would take a bullet for him and I have not only donated money but I also donate my time daily to support his campaign.
We stand behind a man who supports The Constitution and takes his oath of office to defend our rights seriously. Unlike Newt “First ethics violation (1-84-0 record) House Speaker” Gingrich who is about as unethical as they come in politics. However, that information is not hard to come by and really only takes a few minutes to research using the proper websites.
Ron Paul Constitutional voting record: (not a fan of the WP)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/ron-pauls-constitutionalist-record-fact-checker-biography/2011/12/27/gIQAsPSOLP_blog.html
Great unbiased article on our debt:
http://www.factcheck.org/2012/02/dueling-debt-deceptions/
Latest attack on our civil liberties:
http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech/how-big-deal-hr-347-criminalizing-protest-bill
With the voting record here:
http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2012/h/73
Maybe instead of complaining, which as one intellect pointed out does not help anyone, your site could research some information on what to do differently in the future to inform your ‘voters’ for the next election in November. Write something which points out that we are all in this financial mess together and that without any REAL plan in place we stand to all lose. “Together we stand together as men (and women), divided we fail together as fools.” – Martin Luther King Jr.
We can agree to disagree on many issues but we cannot disagree on defending The Constitution. It is our civic duty to protect our unalienable rights and to stop this oppression we face today from continuing into the future. What we do in November will make history, and together we can made a difference but we must act NOW!
Since when is civic interest, political activism and, well, EXCITEMENT a bad thing in the Republican party? It’s the exact kind of thing that propelled Obama to victory. Surely we don’t want to run these young people off?
I’ve served as a Republican at various levels within the party (municipal, county, state), and I’ve never seen this type of galvanization or injection of youth. Maybe it’s what we need? A shot in the ass, perhaps?
I just don’t see the need for condescending terms like “Paulbots”, etc. I’ve got to believe part of the reason they’re so happy to be taking over events like this is because they feel generally dissed by the party establishment (see the turning out of the lights by the Nevada GOP in 2008).
It’s time to take some medicine. Believe me, Paul IS NOT going to win. So let’s not piss off these people who could make it really hard for us come November.
I think it is AWSOME! We need to throw the establishment out.
This is Outrageous, We need to do something about the voter fraud! I am not too worried if Ron Paul gets the delegation because at least Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum have all vowed to support Dr. Ron Paul when he becomes the GOP nominee. What I am worried about more than anything is Barrack Hussain Obama will be utilizing his power to make sure the vote is rigged. Has anyone worried about voter fraud? Has anyone ever heard of Diebolt?
As a political analyst who is not part of the Ron Paul “movement”, I must say that this article is a bit ‘propagated’. Ron Paul’s plans are not “devious” nor is he ‘stealing’ anything technically, he is playing his hand using the rules of the party to his advantage. If one side doesn’t understand the process as well as the other, it doesn’t mean that the latter is “cheating”.
Throughout this entire country’s GOP debates, caucus’s, primary’s each individual state has been totally dissing, denying, discounting, and smugly writing Ron Paul off as unelectable. The media has totally blacked him out, his republican constituents blast him, but the whole time, the plan has been in action. Ron Paul has been the only candidate that has a different plan, a plan that America really wants. The rest of the candidates have as left wing a candidacy as Obama himself. None are electable, none have a plan for the refurbishing of our country, and none have the support of the people. The showboating is over. The pretty face type politician is now just a facade. The real deal is the new deal. Stop the wars, end the printing of our economical downfall. Restore our freedoms, Constitution, and bill-of-rights. The perfectly legal way we are conducting this election is the only way assured to get an honest election. Every state that have been caucused has had extreme amounts of fraud with virtually no media coverage of Ron Paul. Gotta’ love it!!!
I support Ron Paul. I, having listened and observed the actions of all of the GOP candidates and our sitting President, find that I am aligned most with the positions of Ron Paul. Do I agree with all of his positions? No I don’t but I find his policies to be more beneficial to the US than any other candidate. Because of this alone he will get my vote but the main reason that I will give him my vote is because his voting record and reasons for his votes are consistent with my beliefs and consistent with what he says and is consistent with his sworn oath. Before a Representative, Senator or President can effect one piece of legislation or write one executive order, they must pledge an oath. That oath is always the same….. Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
With the affirmative votes by all of the GOP candidates bar one and the incumbent president, both as Senator and now as President, the government has effectively repealed the Fourth Amendment (protection against illegal search and seizures), the Fifth Amendment (the right to due process of the law), and the Sixth Amendment (the right to a speedy public trial) and most recently the First Amendment (the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances), under the guise of increased security for all American citizens. They supported the Patriot Act, NDAA and the Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011. All of which directly attacked the Constitution and its Amendments.
No, I am not a BOT, I am a thinking American with an opinion and a vote. People here talk about the dirty tricks played by the PaulBots….. what about a party that will not give equal air to all of its candidates or a media h3ll bent one ignoring or misreporting what is really happening with a candidate. All of thes dirty tricks you are talking about are nothing more than people participating in the process….. and if they have the votes to control the process… isn’t that they way its suppose to work.
I too am a neocon turned political activist for Ron Paul. When Herman Cain dropped out I was at a loss. While researching the candidates I was intrigued by the lack of media coverage given to Ron Paul. So I googled him, watched his speeches going back 30 years and looked up his voting record.. I found he was a true American patrion like Thomas Jefferson, a breath of fresh air to rekiindle life and the fire of liberty from the chains of statism. I am a 60 year old Vietnam-era veteran and a retired engineer. I suggest that all google Ron Paul and get to know what this man stands for: the Constitution of the United States written by We, The People.
You did not look hard enough because RP has been bringing home the pork… big time…. he has quite a reputation for his pork projects. That is not conservative.
So you believe a possibly uninformed supporter over the repeated words of the man himself? That makes you a bit disingenuous.
Keep in mind, that these same supporters have also witness Romney establishment after establishment delete their votes, “forget them” or accidentally “toss the paper” with the tallies.
Don’t blame the system if your “side” doesn’t have enough active and involved supporters.
Side note: This is also how Obama gained the nomination over Hillary, the establishment candidate.
Your point has some validity. For example, in my area, I know people who went to caucus for RP and certainly nothing like Tamminator reported here.
One of the things I’ve found from reading HillBuzz over the years is that the nomination process varies WIDELY from place to place. Kevin has collected many stories about how Obama’s ground teams were doing some shady things in some areas to beat Hillary. But certainly that was not happening in every state.
My perception is that the actual execution of any individual caucus depends greatly on who is heading up the ground team for XYZ candidate for that area.
However, I don’t necessarily agree fully with the general argument that “it’s OK because no rules have been broken”. A system that can be “gamed” does not simply say something about the system itself, but also those who would game it. Nevertheless, it would be foolish for any person to think that ONLY Ron Paul’s supporters have tried to play this game.
At the end of the day, politics is ugly. There is no doubt about it. Entrenched powers in both major parties seek to maintain their entrenchment above all. Ron Paul and his ground teams have been the “victim” of that, and they have also participated in the “victimization” of others (perhaps because they feel it is the only way to be heard due to the entrenchment of the establishment GOP a.k.a the “Cocktail Party”). Technically, it’s not against the rules. But that doesn’t necessary make it “right”.
Note that I’m not arguing that the RP teams shouldn’t proceed with the tactic. I’m simply lamenting that the process seems to demand it at all.
i can not express how delighted i am to be part of the new face of the gop.
i think its sad so many other commentators here feel that passionate involvement and through understanding of policies and procedures of the election process some how makes us “bad” participants. its our country, too, we studied and worked and we are effecting the changes we want; that is how it works, that is how it was set up and its the way it should be.
read the speeches of the founding fathers and tell me they were not similarly impassioned or boisterous in their own meetings; they loved liberty and freedom and we want to protect those same freedoms for our young, with out the debt and lack of monetary value we have now. we love this country and its unfortunate we should be faulted for our love of liberty or our passion.
Looks like Ron Paul had a bad night.
I appreciate your response.
Your discussion of tactics vs. strategy makes sense. However, I do have a couple difficulties with your reply.
First and foremost, I have to take a bit of exception with your use of the term “enemies”. In my experience, most regular folks (even committed liberals) want “what is best” for the country. People obviously differ greatly on their opinions of how to improve the country, but having a different opinion doesn’t make them an enemy.
I realize that you probably meant “enemy” in the purely symbolic sense (i.e. “opponent”) rather than the dictionary definition, but it is the use of terms like this which does turn off some people who would otherwise be interested in what you have to say.
The second problem I have is your insinuation that Ron Paul basically doesn’t really mean what he says when he talks about timelines. Now I freely admit that I’m not nearly as well versed in Ron Paul’s strategy or the specific details of the execution of his ideology as you probably are, but I certainly believe Ron Paul is consistent and honest. As such, I am inclined to take Ron Paul’s own words at face value.
As Commander in Chief, it is my understanding that the one area in which President Ron Paul could execute his ideology immediately and without Congressional backing is closing down military bases and moving troops back to the U.S. I think that bears consideration, when you do admit that his stated timeline is probably unrealistic and likely to cause chaos. Unless you are aware of other specific statements RP has made regarding a more gradual timeline.
Back to the issue of tactics, I do understand your point of using a strong defense as his offense. However, I think it would be tactically questionable to assume that a Congress — even a Republican Congress — would “put up” with being vetoed constantly. Congress is a building full of “roosters”, all strutting their stuff, following their own aspirations, and wanting to be noticed. Whoever is President will HAVE to work with Congress and, in my opinion, cannot simply rely on a stiff veto to get anything done.
If you read about the shortcomings of Jimmy Carter’s presidency, one of the things that will undoubtedly come up is how his administration was actually fairly contentious with the Democrat-controlled Congress. Even with a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, President Carter rejected “politics as usual” in Washington and Congress fought him on it tooth and nail.
Anybody who knows even a little bit about Ron Paul knows that he is NOT “politics as usual”. And so I think it is completely legitimate to wonder about how his relationship with the typical Congressional political machine would actually play out were he to become President. If Ron Paul becomes the nominee, I will gladly vote for him and support him against Obama. However, if Ron Paul’s administration were to be like Jimmy Carter’s with regard to the way it dealt with Congress, then not only would Ron Paul ultimately be an ineffective leader, but his ideology would take damage as well. Which would be a real shame because a large majority of his ideology is, in my opinion, spot on.
By the way, the same question is equally fair for all the other candidates as well.
hate to burst your bubble… but a man who brings home the pork for his home county… and speaks out of the other side of his mouth is NOT honest.
If this wasn’t America, I would find TheTamminator and slit their throat for their libel. Just saying. TheTamminator better hope Ron Paul wins and America remains America and doesn’t become an insovlent part of the NA union. Which, should that happen, I’ll be on the hunt.
That is disgusting and extremely offensive. Furthermore, it completely violates the principles of liberty espoused by Mr. Paul. Either you are not a Paul supporter or you lack a fundemental understanding of the core of his philosophy. Either way, you do his cause no good.
Classy! And you even got a “like”.
Maybe you’ll get a few hundred more, considering some of the vile comments that I’ve already deleted.
Why don’t you delete it then? Besides, I highly doubt anyone wanting to help Ron Paul would post such idiocy.
I know it’s a Ron Paul supporter. You all came from the same site.
http://www.dailypaul.com/220594/lmao-ron-paul-is-stealing-the-gop
Ooh, it’s up to TWO likes.
Showing your true stripes, eh?
Wow, personal violent attacks on people you disagree with. That’s super classy, there. I disagree with pretty much every single word TheTamminator has posted here, but I’m not going to violently threaten her personally. That’s just ridiculous.
I’m going to offer my services to the Tamminator in order to give her the identity of Blankus Novarium.
I would strongly suggest that she file charges with the AG in their state.
Blankus, you may think you’ve skirted a death threat by saying “if this wasn’t America”, but you followed that by saying if certain events take place you will be hunting for her.
Sorry stupid, that is a death threat.
Nothing will make me happier than being able to report that a Paulbot has been arrested for making a death threat against a non-supporter.
Well done. You’ve set back the REVO.
By the way, Blankus, I’m reporting you to my Attorney General tomorrow morning.
I know your name, your IP address and I can find out a lot more about you if I want to.
Anyone else want to threaten to kill me?
Funny how the Ron Paul supporters don’t give me a “like” for wanting to bring a person who threatens my life to justice.
Oh, well.
Just shows you how cultist they are in supporting their own.
“If this wasn’t America, I would find TheTamminator and slit their throat for their libel. Just saying. TheTamminator better hope Ron Paul wins and America remains America and doesn’t become an insovlent part of the NA union. Which, should that happen, I’ll be on the hunt.
”
I may disagree with the Tamminator but this kind of attitude makes you every bit as bad as the people you’re supposedly “against”. I’d rather see Paul lose without your support than win with the support of someone who can legitimately think this way. Do you realize that you’re exactly the same as those in the religious right who think the way to fight abortion is to blow up abortion clinics or murder doctors who perform abortion or the women who seek them? Do you realize you’re exactly the same as the Taliban who would stone a woman to death for having the audacity to be raped?
You seriously need to check your attitude sir (or ma’am).
Good on you reporting him to law enforcement Tamminator. Psychologically speaking, violent ideation, especially against someone for whom one feels righteous indignation and for whom the person sees as in some way less than themselves, is well into the gateway of physical violence. I hope your case is investigated thoroughly and treated as the serious thing that it is. I don’t think that Blankus Novarium is actually going to follow through with their threat, but if left unchecked and their underlying conditions are left untreated, it could easily escalate to that for someone else.
Sorry Blankus Novarium, but you’re 100% in the wrong here, and you really should seek professional help with your problem. Mental illnesses and personality disorders may be “invisible” but they are still quite real as are their effects on society.
Please remember whom you represent when you blog. Dr. Paul would NEVER approve of this type of language, and what you say reflects on him. He’s a gentleman and a gentle man.
“the fact is, they mean business.”
nice..
I am a Republican from Fort Worth, TX. During the 2008 election season, I had to opportunity to participate all the way to the Republican National Convention. During the process I learned several things when dealing with the Ron Paul supporters.
First, while their tactics seem abrupt and often rude, they do absolutely follow the rules within each convention. Roberts Rules of Order is typically the standard by which each convention is held. A parliamentarian is typically required to be on hand to make sure that such outburst, while seemingly intrusive, actually follow correct procedure. The indications that you provide that they used strong-arm tactics and were very disruptive with yells of “point of order” indicate that the chairman of the convention and yourself probably understood these parliamentary rules less than the well-studied individuals using them.
Second, I learned that people like myself who have been involved for years MUST become MORE educated on the rules and procedures we often take for granted in these conventions. The rules can be used to maintain the status quo or to advance any sort of agenda. Nothing you stated in your description of the events suggests there was actually any wrong-doing. Quite the contrary. The description you provide suggest the Ron Paul delegates took more time to understand and use the rules to their benefit than other did to maintain the status quo.
Third, while many Ron Paul supporters to take their attitude to the extreme, it is my experience from dealing with them in similar situations in various conventions, that their behavior stems from what they perceive as an unwillingness on our part to hear and/or understand them. We cannot forget that Ron Paul supporters have as much right to voice their opinion and fight for a spot as a delegate in advanced conventions as we do. What amazed me most when I finally set my anger aside and sat down with some of the Ron Paul leaders in my area is that 90% of what they believe I also believe. On the other 10 percent, they either challenged me to rethink my position or we simply had to agree to disagree, which they most often are happy to let you do. If they think they are simply being dismissed however, the take that as an attempt to shut down their rights to fight for a government they believe in.
I cannot express enough how much more smooth our conventions in this area have been when dealing with the Ron Paul crowd once we treat them as legitimate people who are more than kooks. You are right, they DO mean business. I think you will find that they do NOT mean harm, but you cannot mistreat them as second-class citizens. That is the sort of treatment that most provokes them. My advice, fight them with the rules. But MORE than that. Listen to them. We had several Ron Paul supporters travel to the National Convention with us as delegates and alternates. They were respectable and rule-following. They gave their word to vote for who they were bound to vote for unless the convention became a brokered one. In that case, they follow the rules and vote their conscience…just like they expect you and me to do in the same situation.
Wouldn’t it be better if the RP supporter started their own party? RP does not belong in the Republican Party. He is way too extreme.
Breitbart said it best about Paulbots.
This is not a revolution of ideology, specifically libertarianism. If it were we’d be seeing these “young” idealists revolutionizing college campuses and universities. They simply aren’t.
We see no clashes of ideology with the left controlled campus and Paulbots. It simply is not happening.
There are no brush fires of libertarian candidates rising up on county and state levels. It’s non-existent.
Instead, we’ve seen cultists gravitate to one uncharismatic, 30 year done-nothing candidate as if he’s this phenomenal new kid on the block.
He’s in his twilight years and should be retiring if it wasn’t for this hipster revolution, that is largely fueled by the left, that has deluded this poor old man into thinking he’s relevant.
Ron Paul’s appeal is his stance on legalizing drugs and pacifism. (It’s pacifism, he said he would not have intervened in the holocaust. Pacifism is the kindest thing I can say about that stance.)
Another thing Paulbots say is that “Ron Paul is going to audit the fed.”
I ask them, and then what?
(crickets)
They don’t even know what the outcome could possibly be and what will be done with that information. It’s just the “thing to say.” It goes no further than that.
They have this dream of the gold standard. It matters little that there is enough gold in our possession to cover the amount of money in circulation. This is met with open-mouthed breathing.
When a candidate says 9/11 was blowback, and we’ve gotten what we deserve, and all other countries are entitled to their nukes and there would be no military response to Iran blockading the Strait of Hormuz, and we should open up trade with communist countries. and Israel is on their own (but hes approved aid to Palestinians and characterized them as the oppressed and freedom fighters) I fully expect to see Code Pink next to their name. Nope. I’m told this is the CONSERVATIVE candidate.
Ya, okay.
Morons.
BigFurHat burbles about Dr. Paul’s supporters:
“They have this dream of the gold standard. It matters little that there is [not] enough gold in our possession to cover the amount of money in circulation.”
Even though it’s laughably inaccurate (the advocacy is for competing currencies the better to permit Americans to conduct their affairs without being victimized under legal tender laws by the debauchment of the U.S. dollar), there’s an unintended glimmer of truth in this idiot’s yammer.
There is most definitely not enough gold in the possession of the U.S. treasury or the Federal Reserve System to cover the amount of currency in circulation.
And how did that happen, hm?
The purpose of real commodities (usually the monetary metals gold and silver) to back paper notes and base metal tokens in circulation is to preserve the value of the medium of exchange, and thereby stabilize both savings and transactions in the marketplace.
Anybody who advocates any other proposition is stumping for the concerted and deliberate theft of value by fraud, which is all that such currency counterfeiting has ever been.
It’s a criminal predation upon innocent people’s lives, liberties, and property whether it’s done by the freelancer cranking out twenty-dollar bills in his basement or the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury going “wink-wink-nudge-nudge” with his fellow Goldman Sachs alumni at the Federal Reserve.
Tucci I disagree with most of what you are saying, but you did get something correct….in the last paragraph.
As an outsider looking in, I agree with the comment about the printing of money. This is what went wrong in pre-second world war Germany and after the first world war. There was massive inflation in Germany during that period.
However, despite the fact that I agree on that one point, I actually think that you have the rest of it wrong.
As far as I am aware no-one knows how much money is mainted at Fort Knox. I think that yes there needs to be an audit because that did not happen when Nixon was President, and when he made the decision to float the US dollar.
Despite what has been claimed I do not believe that it is possible to claw back away from the floating exchange rate.
At last you are someone who seems to have some idea on economics.
I speak as an outsider. Unfortunately we are all stuck with a global economy where $US are mostly quoted.
We have to deal with cross-currencies and yes we need to have something that will regulate the situation.
IT is nonsense for people to want to dismantle “the Fed”.
Australia has the Reserve Bank. It has a similar role to “the Fed”. It is the governors of the Reserve Bank who meet once a month to determine whether interest rates will go up or down. Our exchange rate is a floating exchange rate (something that I do not necessarily like). After it was floated the $A took a nose dive. Apparently this was good for exports, but lousy for imports with everything becoming dearer.
Good gracious! Paulbots sure are getting desperate.
And, just an FYI — you’ll never win when going up against the Tamminator and BFH.
Both the Parties have us all in an uproar of confusion, fear and anger. And yet, we insist in fighting each other instead of seeing the real problem… The government and both parties working together to keep us fighting among ourselves. New bills keep poping up about issues that we KNOW are unconstutitional and plain stupid. The White house, including the democrats and republicans, are not over looking anything, they are doing what is part of the plan, FOOL the PUBLIC and get them to fight each other. They both all pulling the wool over our sheeply eyes in an effort to destroy our class all together.
But the truth is Freedom and Rights… and you all insist on fighting each other instead of the real problem. Wake up People and join forces. Let’s get The Constitution of the United States and our Bill of Rights BACK into our lives. Don’t you miss them?
there’s an unintended glimmer of truth in this idiot’s yammer. >
Unintended?
Awww, fanboy, Chris Muir wouldn’t like that you’re calling me an idiot.
I know Ron Paul. I used to work for a conservative congressman in D.C. and often was around him.
The man is an outright fraud.
He thinks his “followers” are people to be manipulated for his personal benefit. I’ve heard him calculating which way to vote — based on what would generate the most funds in a direct mail pitch.
The point I don’t think most of his followers understand is that he considered a joke by his colleagues, even the very conservative ones. That is why he has never been able to do anything legislatively.
The saddest thing to me is that so many of his folks see him as some kind of messianic figure. He’s not.
Well Steve…Sounds like Paul is no different than any other congressman we have “not working ” for us. Your statements confirm the whole place is full of self serving power hungry people who only care about their next re election. That sounds about right! Are there no statesmen left in this country? The current crew are whimps too afraid to go after unconstitutional actions or corruption for fear their own unrighteous acts will be found out.
This may be why we have so many people just tuning out instead of getting involved.