What: The Vice Presidential Debate between Mike Pence and Tim Kaine
When: 10/04/16 at 7pm CT
Where: RightSideBroadcasting (on the YouTubes via the Internets on your computers) and CSPAN streams
Why: Because we are friends like this, I will watch the whole thing live and take notes as everything happens. But only because we are friends like this. If I didn’t like you so much, I would be watching old episodes of Dynasty on Amazon instead. And loving it.
Tonight, Mike Pence and Tim Kaine — two people who most people forget about — will be debating. I’m going to watch it for you and make live comments as it happens. So, this will be one of those threads that I do not go back and spellcheck or edit. It will just be my stream of consciousness as events unfold later this evening.
I’ve come around to the conclusion that Trump really made a truly strategic move in picking Mike Pence, instead of choosing someone flashy and memorable. By picking Pence, Trump tricked Hillary into picking Tim Kaine, whom she really likes for some reason. I don’t know what the story is there, but I’m starting to believe that she had to pick Kaine as a quid pro quo favor she owed him from when he was head of the DNC. Or else she just really likes him and is loyal to him and he’s her friend. I know people like to say a lot of terrible things about Hillary Clinton — and she has done some rotten stuff lately — but the woman is very loyal to her friends and she keeps people around her who are loyal to her.
Tim Kaine, however, does nothing to excite black people…who only get excited to vote when someone who is their skin color is on the ballot. I still don’t understand why Hillary didn’t want Corey Booker to be her VP: he is black, he’s charming, he’s black, he’s secretly gay, he’s black, he’s a good political attacker when he needs to be, he’s black, etc. Corey Booker is like another helping of Obama, and the Democrat base (especially black people) love them some Obama. Most people who voted for Obama would vote for him for a third term. If Hillary had picked Corey Booker, she’s lock up a lot more black votes because they’d see a picture of him, they’d hold their arms up to the tee-vee screen, they’d check that Corey Booker was around the same skin color as them, and then they’d go vote for “the historic and unprecedented first black Vice President, Corey Booker.”
Maybe Hillary didn’t want Booker stealing any of her thunder. Or, maybe she thought “Hillary/Booker” would look horrendous on campaign materials. Did all of her legal troubles prevent her from selecting Booker as VP because she didn’t want to give people a better slogan than “Hillary for Prison”? She also flirted with those “Castro Brothers” to be her VP. Well, one of them at least. There’s a better looking one and then there’s the one who looks like a lizard. If Trump had picked someone interesting as VP, I think Hillary would have felt pressure to pick someone interesting too. But, when Trump selected the talking jar of Miracle Whip to be his running mate, Hillary reached for the Hellmanns as well.
Strategically, I think it was really smart for Trump to trick her like this, because I don’t think Kaine gets Hillary a single additional vote…but I think that some Establishment Republicans will vote for Pence because they like Pence. A lot of Establishment types hope that Pence will be a very active VP, who will be given the job of running a lot of things behind the scenes, doing whatever Trump doesn’t want to do. The elite feel that they have someone they can work with in Pence and that he will be doing the yeoman’s work in the administration. They like that and are appeased with him.
I’m not sure who Kaine is supposed to appeal to. It sure ain’t black folk. He talks in Spanish sometimes, which is like nails on the chalkboard to me. I wondered if Hispanic people like it when he does that, but a friend of mine said that she thinks it’s like when white people who did a study abroad in Spain or Costa Rico try to talk Spanish when they go to a Mexican restaurant or encounter a Hispanic housekeeper at a hotel or a gardener in their yard. Breaking into Spanish with these people is insulting to them, which I don’t think Kaine realizes: it presumes that these people don’t know English and it says to them that you think they are too stupid to speak English, so you pander to them with the Spanish you remember from years ago. A lot of Hispanics don’t like when white people do this to them.
This has been an interesting election because neither Pence nor Kaine ever make the news. I am not kidding, but I have to stop and think what Pence’s first name is almost every time I think of him. I just call him Pence. I struggle to remember his first name is Mike. With Kaine, I have to remember how he spells his name and that it’s not Kane, which is how I am programmed to spell it, as in Citizen Kane. I have yet to see a headline written riffing on “Citizen Kaine,” because I don’t think anyone has bothered to write a profile on Tim Kaine. Apart from him behaving like a toddler enraptured with balloons on the last night of the DNC convention, there is not much that I know about this man. That would be scary to me if I thought that Hillary was going to win this election…because her health is so bad that it’s doubtful she would make it through a full term and Kaine would end up being the 46th president at some point in the next four years.
I don’t know anything about Pence, either, except that he looks like a more handsome version of John McCain. If they were making a movie about John McCain, they could have Mike Pence play him in the movie. He reminds me of guys who work in the Loop and ride the Metra trains out to their nice homes in the suburbs, where he has a big lawn and an Irish setter named Friday. I don’t think he’s a bad man and trust him to know about investments and taxes and home remodeling, all the things that those guys on the Metra trains are good at.
I’ll pop back onto this thread throughout the day with more musings on the VP picks and the state of the race, up until the debate gets going this evening. Then, I’ll settle in for the live play-by-play for you in real time. I think it’s important to do this because the Media lies so much after these events air. People who don’t watch these things for themselves then start believing whatever narrative the Media concocts. I think it’s interesting to go back and read what I thought was important as it was all really happening and then compare it to what the Media decided was important. I think it always feels like we were watching two different debates…but, really it’s just that they are lying liars who disregard reality and invent the narrative they want to tell instead. Those people are shameless and should never be trusted.
617pmCT = Waiting for the debate to start. Joel Pollock at Breitbart has a piece up about how this VP debate is not a fair fight, basically because Mike Pence is a competent person and Tim Kaine is a buffoon. In fairness, the only time I’ve ever heard either of them speak was during their respective speeches at the two separate conventions. Both of them have been such non-entities in this presidential race that weeks have gone by without me thinking about either of them. I don’t remember that ever happening before, where the VP candidates were just totally in the background. In 2012, Paul Ryan would be talked about, I think because so many people didn’t like Romney and so they tried falling in love with Ryan so get them motivated to defeat Obama. Ryan is cute in a nerdy way, but he’s also pretty hard to fall in love with. In 2008, Sarah Palin was the person who people were actually voting for. She brought excitement to that race. I would have gone to Hell and back for Sarah Palin (and still would). The huge crowds came out to see and hear her, even though everyone was repulsed by McCain. To this day I think he looks like a rare albino great white shark who was turned into a person in some medical accident at Sea World (that was covered up).
Going back further, in 2004 Dick Cheney was of course an interesting sitting VP…but even Edwards was a factor in the race. People tried to like him, I guess, even though Kerry was so creepy. It’s hard to remember this now, but Vanity Fair tried really hard to paint John Edwards and his family in a Camelot/Kennedy kind of light. Edwards was put out there to seem more like a handsome, regular person to contrast with the insanely wealthy Kerry family (with all the Heinz ketchup money through Teresa Heinz-Kerry). And then in 2000, we had Cheney vs. Joe Leiberman, which was interesting. He was on the ticket because he liked to criticize Bill Clinton and the Democrats thought that was the key to winning in 2000…to have someone on the ticket who had spoken out against Bill, so people who didn’t like Bill would have someone from their point of view running with Gore. I’ll always think that Gore would have won that race if he had listened to Bill and put Barbara Mikulski out there as his VP pick in 2000. Lieberman ended up coming across as this nebbish little gnome…and Mikulski is diminutive like that herself, so that part would have been a wash. But I think having another female VP pick would have brought some excitement in 2000. She would have been only the second female VP pick ever at the time; I think that would have altered the race enough for Gore to win.
Of all the recent VP picks, I think Mikulski instead of Leiberman is the only one that would have changed the results of the election. Here in 2016, I think that Hillary is going to really regret choosing Tim Kaine. She really needed someone to bring home the black vote and excite the Millennials for her…and Tim Kaine did neither of those things. So, what the hell good was he?
Plus, he reminds me of either Wayland Flowers and/or Madame, or at least the love child of the two of them. Look at his face and then go ahead and try to tell me I’m wrong.
632pmCT = Here we go folks. Waiting for things to start.
Alex Jones has a backup feed if CSPAN goes down. I’m looking for the Right Side Broadcasting feed as well.
This debate is being held at Longwood University, which I guess is a place. I’ve never heard of that place. I suppose it’s real. But I haven’t checked. We just all assume it’s real. Allegedly supposedly it’s located in Farmville, Virginia but that doesn’t sound like a real place at all. There’s a game called FarmVille that people used to play. I don’t know if they still play it. I am not a computer game person. Beep, beep, boop, boop, computers.
701pmCT = Now CSPAN has this little counter up saying that the debate starts in an hour, but it was supposed to start at 630pmCT. I feel like either I have gotten old and I no longer know when things are supposed to start, or they just keep changing the times on me. Everything says “Starts at 630pm!” but then now it’s starting at 8pm or 9pm. It also doesn’t help that I’m on Central Time, so right there I always have to wonder if people are talking about Eastern Time or Central Time when they give a time for anything. All of this is exhausting.
CSPAN has some man talking about vice presidents. He says that Joe Biden is the most consequential VP ever. I bet he’s related to Joe Biden somehow. He might be the only person to ever think that Joe Biden is consequential. Dick Cheney is hands-down the most consequential VP ever, besides the ones who ended up taking over the presidency for any reason. I believe that Cheney was even acting president at one point while Bush had some medical procedure where he was sedated. I don’t think Biden was ever acting VP. Usually they would just send Biden out to eat ice cream at various places, and he’d mess that up by allowing weird pictures of him to be taken eating the ice cream. Like he was making dairy porn.
Here’s Mike Pence walking around somewhere, smiling. That lady with the dark hair is his wife. CSPAN has talking heads too, but I don’t think they are obnoxious. CSPAN really is a great resource that we have available to us. I don’t ever detect much bias from them.
Mike Pence always comes across to me like someone who works in one of the offices downtown in Chicago. Those are all typically really nice people. He seems like a very normal, nice man. I guess he’s handsome too, though at 40 I’m not ready yet to think guys with white hair are handsome. I’m sure I will get there. Don’t worry, I’ll let you know if I spot anyone remotely attractive all evening so you know who all the hot guys are who are at this debate. I doubt any of them will make the stage.
Mike Pence has a son who is a Marine. That’s the quickest way for me to like you, to say that you raised a kid who became a United States Marine. If you managed to do that — which I consider to be the greatest thing a parent could ever possibly do — you become a hero to me. I thank God every day that there are United States Marines. They are the greatest human beings on the planet.
Trump is apparently at a hotel in Vegas tonight and Hillary is in her Cappaqua house in New York.
Tim Kaine actually has a son who is a Marine too. That’s really nice to hear. He can’t be a bad person at heart either if he has a son who is a Marine. I’m telling you: bad people can’t raise kids who go on to be Marines. I don’t see how that would happen, unless the kid is just really exceptional and overcomes the parents’ terribleness. I would think that someone who was really awful at heart would have a fit if the kid wanted to join the Marines, or would steer the kid away from doing that.
So, neither Pence nor Kaine are bad guys. This is really good to know, where no matter who wins there will be a VP who has been a decent parent. That’s comforting to me.
My problems with Kaine from what I have seen is that he comes across as a bumbling buffoon. I question his competence. But I also wonder if he somehow manipulated the Clintons into getting them to pick him. There was a bumbling idiot in the movie My Fellow Americans who was behind the big plot in the movie…which was the surprise twist at the end. Of all the people who the Clintons could have picked to run with Hillary, it’s still so strange to me that Kaine was picked. I wonder if tonight we will see why.
This is interesting. CSPAN is interviewing some woman who is one of the people who sets up these debates. I never understand why Republicans allow this debate committee to pick clear Democrat operatives to always be the moderators. They should pick unknown people that no one has ever heard of to be moderators, instead of celebrities like Lester Holt, Anderson Cooper, Candy Crowley, or whoever.
This woman is explaining why they don’t allow third parties to participate in debates. She says that 1,800 people tried to run for president this year. She says that people who participate in debates must be on the ballots in enough states to have it be possible for them to become president.
Look how crazy Donna Brazile’s hair looks. Look at that shockingly weird purple color. She’s wearing red tonight, so it makes her look mentally ill. Look at this! She really needs a gay male friend in her life to say, “Oh honey, no. No, no, no, no, no.”
The Commission on Presidential Debates says it wants to hear from us. You don’t have to ask me twice! Tomorrow I will find a way to write to them, because I think people should tell them that they are wrong to keep allowing celebrity moderators. Why can’t this woman moderate the debate? If this is all they do, run debates, then why the hell can’t they be the moderators? Wouldn’t that be a great debate? Why is Lester Holt or whoever needed? Let professional debate moderators run the show. They to me seem less likely to play games.
She said that there were 84 million viewers of the last debate, but that does not include CSPAN numbers (which were about 15 million more). To me it feels like around 100 million people saw that debate.
This is what I think is really fun: watching the famous people talking before the debate starts. Reince Preibus and Donna Brazile were just talking. All of these people in the Establishment are friends. They are like Coke and Pepsi executives, who all belong to the same country club. They all know and like each other and politics is really just a show they put on. They all help each other stay in power. They keep showing that woman with white hair who is by Donna Brazile in the picture below. She must be famous but I can’t figure out who she is. She looks like an older version of Jennifer Granholm, but I know it’s not Granholm. Ted Koppel is somewhere in there too. He has shock-white hair now. It took me a minute to recognize him. At least he does not dye his hair purple though.
Jesse Jackson is there. One of the worst human beings on the planet. He causes so much racial tension for his own personal profit. He also loves hanging out naked at a place called King Spa in Niles, Illinois.
Here’s this woman again, from the debate commission. She has a mousy voice. She asks people to take their seats and they ignore her. Everyone wants selfies with the stage.
They normally have basketball games on this stage, she claims. I don’t know much about sportsball, but I don’t see how that is possible. I think this woman lost a bet or something and someone dared her to wear the biggest earrings she could find and she had to do it. Well, that should teach her to stop gambling and betting on things. And then a bunch of people talk about that Commission on Presidential Debates and I spend this whole time wondering why all of these people aren’t fired for allowing the moderators to be so biased every single election cycle. Nothing is ever done about this. It just keeps happening over and over and over again.
I don’t think 90 minutes is enough for these things. I think they should be two hours long. At that point, everyone gets to talk about what they want to talk about. And when it gets close to the two hour mark, everyone is tired and their real personalities come out. That’s what the public needs to see. If they really want to be president, make them sit there for two hours being grilled by the public.
Here’s that Dr. Fartencough again. He says that the Commission gets no money from anyone, so I don’t know how they get their money. Some law firms give them money and the AARP and Anheuser Busch. When they aren’t doing presidential debates, Dr. Fartencough says they do other things. He says that social media has changed everything and that in the last four years they have been working with social media platforms to try to get Millennials interested in things. I am really wary of this, because Facebook and Twitter really do have proven agendas. They should be treated like Media companies because they really are media. Social media is Media.
Dr. Fartencough says that people around the world are interested in debates. I don’t know if that is true. I don’t think many people enjoy watching this stuff as much as I do. I really do love this stuff. I think I love it in the way that other people love sportsball. This is exciting and fun for me. I like doing these recaps too. Look what a crazy name this man has, the president of whatever university this is:
He’s saying that Virginians have had the most people hold the first and second highest offices in the land. My home state of Ohio has had a weirdly high number of presidents…and Ohio also has the largest number of astronauts too. I think Democrats have been aggressively importing Spanish-speakers into Virginia and signing them up to vote illegally. They’ve been pushing that hard. I think Democrats realized they could never convince the American people to side with the Left, so they decided to just replace Americans with a whole new kind of people that Democrats started importing. And Americans were very stupid and naive and let this happen. Democrats are all about population replacement through floods of immigration without assimilation.
Now, everyone has been asked to sit quietly and stare at the blank stage for 13 minutes. Use this time wisely. Think about things you have done wrong in your lives. I’m going to play Whitney Houston music in my head, like I always do.
The Pence and Kaine families then come out. They shake hands. I expect for a moment that they will wrestle, but they don’t do that. Everyone seems visibly disappointed. I don’t think I will ever learn the names of either of these women or ever know anything about them. At some point, one of them is bound to write a children’s book about a duck or an elephant or a transgendered toaster or something that lives in the Naval Observatory, because this is what Second Ladies all seem to do.
I thought that Anderson Cooper was moderating this debate, but this doesn’t look like him. Unless he is in drag. I guess Anderson Cooper’s drag name is “Elaine Quijano.” My favorite drag name that I’ve ever heard belongs to a queen here in Chicago named “Ophelia Payne.” Tiffany Blue, Ambrosia Salad, and Pandora Boxx are also fun. Drag queens are funny clowns in the gay community. This woman, whoever she is, seems like a clown herself.
While we are waiting for things to start, check out the campaign gear available at Treadless in Chicago. There’s lots of anti-Trump stuff, but also an anti-Hillary shirt, which is surprising. And the only positive Hillary shirt is ridiculous. Ain’t nobody thinks Hillary is a “badass.” The Hillary-as-Joker shirt is funny though, since this election really is like The Joker running against Lex Luthor. I think it might be the strangest election that was humanly possible. The Media created this, with 8 years of fawning over Obama and the Establishment ignoring the public. This is what happened.
805pmCT = Here we go!
Talking about what happens if the VP has to take over.
Look how much Tim Kaine looks like Wayland Flowers. Or Madame. I’m totally right about that.
Kaine says that Hillary is just like the little black girl in the Brown v. Board of Education case. He says that Hillary Clinton chose him to be VP because he was a missionary and a civil rights lawyer. He says he has experience at all levels of government. He says he likes relish on his rolls. His wife likes Hillary but is scared of Donald Trump’s hair.
Pence: He is humbled. His family is there and he is honored to be there. Pence’s voice is kind of sexy. Like if he started reading to you, you wouldn’t tell him to stop, even if the book was long or uninteresting. He had a cornfield in his backyard and his grandfather was an immigrant. They lived in Indiana. He dreamed of representing his hometown in DC but he never imagined he would be governor let alone VP. He hopes that if he would ever become president that he would be responsible. He will bring his experience. While he talks, Tim Kaine has a crayon and is scribbling or coloring.
811pmCT = Kaine is asked about Clinton Foundation and emails. He chooses not to talk about it and goes through Hillary’s bio instead, working with children etc. And then he attacks Trump…attacks his business…says Trump calls Mexicans rapists and criminals. See how Kaine does not talk about the emails? Let’s see if Pence takes the bait and spends time talking about Trump instead of the Clinton Foundation and the emails.
Democrats NEVER answer questions they don’t want to answer.
Pence: Hillary should know about an insult driven campaign. Clinton was Secretary of State, architect of Obama foreign policy. Middle East spinning out of control. Failed and weak foreign policy. Russia emboldened and aggressive.
Kaine interrupts…”You guys both love Russia. You love Putin.” He rudely interrupts.
Pence: At a time of great challenge to the nation, Clinton/Kaine is an avalanche of insults. Trump built a business through hard times and tough times. Employed people.
Kaine interrupts and heckles again.
Pence: People distrust Hillary because they are paying attention. Clinton Foundation accepts money from foreign governments. Clinton Foundation accepts foreign contributions from foreign governments.
Kaine keeps interrupting. He seems obnoxious. He gets really catty and sassy.
Pence: Iraq has been overrun by ISIS because of Hillary.
It looks like Pence is wearing an American flag pin…while Kaine is wearing a North Korean pin. Whenever he is not speaking, Kaine is crayon-scribbling and looking down. Notice how Pence has a blue tie and Kaine has a red tie. So they swapped the usual color coding for Republican or Democrat. In my opinion, Democrats should ALWAYS be labeled as the “red” party. Red like communists.
Pence is really nice to listen to. He comes off as knowledgeable, classy, calm, and well-informed. He says that we can get America moving again with good trade deals and real growth. Once economy is growing we can get back to dealing with the debt and meet our nation’s needs at home and abroad.
Kaine: Another lousy joke that fell flat. He says Hillary would be a “You’re Hired” president instead of a “You’re Fired” president. He wants to have free college for people who make less than $100,000. Tim Kaine looks like he wears mascara. Something about his eyes. Maybe he has false eyelashes. He accuses Pence of not wanting to raise the minimum wage in Indiana. Talking about how tax breaks are bad. Says tax breaks create recessions.
821pmCT = Trump tax return question.
Pence: Kaine likes using lines like “You’re Hired/You’re Fired.” But we need more than lines. Our economy is in a ditch. We’re in poverty today because of Obama and Clinton. People are suffering. This economy is struggling. You can roll out sunshiny numbers but those are not real. Kaine keeps interrupting.
Pence: Trump is a businessman, not a career politician. The tax returns show he faced some tough times long ago, just as the NY Times had tough times, we have a tax code that allows it to be used the way it is supposed to be used. Kaine keeps interrupting and heckling, saying “how do you know that?” He doesn’t let Pence talk.
Kaine: Claims that Trump should be paying more taxes and not taking deductions.
Pence: Trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosures. Kaine interrupts again.
Moderator asks them not to speak over each other. It’s Kaine who keeps interrupting. The moderator lets him.
826pmCT = Question about social security.
Kaine: Says people work their whole lives and retire into poverty. Have to keep solvent and will keep solvent. Adjust payroll tax upward. Hillary will not engage in risky scheme to privatize social security. Privatization will be good for everyone, he claims.
Pence: They are doing old scare tactics they always roll out. You are running with Hillary Clinton who wants to raise taxes. Donald Trump and I will cut taxes and will meet all obligations. If we stay on the path that your party has us on it will create a mountain of debt.
828pmCT = Law enforcement and race relations. We are asking cops to do too much. Not enough mental health funding and drug addiction funding. How to address concerns.
Kaine: (Watch how he is allowed to speak without being interrupted, but Kaine always interrupts Pence. That is strategic. He’s clearly been told to do this.) Community policing. Build bonds between police and community. He does this thing where his eyebrows go up like Joan Crawford. He says that stop and frisk is wrong. There is too much gun violence. He has scar tissue from a horrible shooting at Virginia Tech. He says he will close background record checks. There was a Romanian holocaust and then a man who was a visiting professor survived the Soviets but could not survive gun violence.
Pence: His dad was a Chicago cop and everyone loved him. Police officers are the best of us and put their lives on the line every single day. Community policing is a great idea. It worked in the Hoosier State. Law enforcement needs the resources and tools to restore law and order. Fraternal order of police endorsed Donald Trump. They also hear the badmouthing from Democrats who seize upon tragedy as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse the police of institutional racism. When a black cop in Charlotte has a shooting it is a tragedy and everyone mourns the loss of life. Hillary referred to that as an example of bias. She said everyone is racist. We need to stop seizing on the moments of tragedy. We need to stop stoking this and seek every opportunity to make use of a crisis.
Kaine: We need to bring up issues of bias in law enforcement. There was a guy killed in St. Paul for no reason. When folks explored the situation, they found he was Mister Rogers with dreadlocks. He was stopped by the police. Blacks and Hispanics get sentenced to prison at different rates.
Pence: When black cop is involved in police shooting of a black man, how is that bias?
Moderator: the police stop Tim Scott, a black Senator, all the time. What would you say to him?
Pence: I have the deepest respect for Senator Scott and he is my friend. We need criminal justice reform. In Congress, I had the second chance act. We need to correct the errors in the system that show institutional bias…but let’s not have the reflex of assuming the worst every single time. Law enforcement is a force for good, I would suggest to you that we need to assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement. Families in inner cities want stop and frisk.
Kaine: Let’s talk about tone. Trump calls Mexicans rapists and criminals. He says women are pigs and slobs. He went after a judge who is Mexican and he says that blacks are living in hell and Obama is not a citizen. You can’t have someone at the top who demeans everyone. This is an insult driven campaign.
838pmCT = Immigration question.
Pence: Trump has laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all. Clinton wants open borders, amnesty, catch and release, all those problems. We need border security and internal enforcement. For the first time, ICE has endorsed someone. Remove the aliens, remove people who overstayed visas. Once we accomplish that, we can deal with those that remain. I was listening to the Avalanche of Insults from Kaine (he tries to interrupt). Clinton levels insults at everyone. What about her irredeemable Basket of Deplorables remark. She calls everyone ‘isms. Sexism, Racism, all the isms. The insult driven campaign comes from Clinton with Basket of Deplorables.
Kaine: (This guy acts really sassy, like a gay guy. It’s funny to watch.) He says that Trump needs to apologize (for speaking the truth). Hillary believes in immigration reform. Says Trump believe in Deportation Nation. Hillary wants to bring in more Democrat voters and to make Spanish-speakers here into citizens. Says Trump wants to deport 16 million people. Trump wants to get rid of birthright citizenship. Deportation Force. Go house to house and school to school and business to business kicking out people. We do not need a Deportation Force.
Pence: We have a Union of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They have a plan for amnesty and erasing borders. They want amnesty. Reagan said a nation without borders is not a nation.
Moderator: How do you remove the immigrants?
Pence: Begin with border security. After we build the wall and do internal enforcement, the focus needs to be on criminal aliens. Violence comes across the border illegally and now engage in crimes here. We do not have the resources or the will to deport them. We need to enforce the law of this country. Strengthen Immigration and Customs Enforcement. We need to reform the system what we have then. Secure the border. Remove the criminals. Uphold the law. Then look at reforming.
Kaine: Trump will get rid of 16 million people. (Why is that a bad thing? They should go back if they did not follow the law to get here.) We are a nation of immigrants (they all say that, but we are really a nation that was an English and Dutch settlement/colony. We are not just a dumping ground for people who are unwanted elsewhere.)
846pmCT = Terrorism
Kaine: Hillary is the only candidate who knows about terrorism. She wiped out Bin Laden. She was a Senator from New York. She will get rid of Baghdadi and ISIL (he calls it ISIL, not ISIS). Trump starts Twitter wars with Miss Universe. He has secret plans and he says he knows all about ISIL. He will fire all the generals. He trash talks the military. He wants to tear up alliances and get rid of generals. He loves Saddam Hussein and wants to put Putin on Mount Rushmore. Trump wants Japan and Saudi Arabia to fight with nuclear weapons. Go ahead folks and enjoy themselves. I don’t know what’s comical about nuclear war.
Pence: Did you work on that one a long time, because you had a lot of creative lines in that. America is less safe today than it was before Obama was president. There’s been a lack leadership. I was in DC on 9/11. We all lived through that day. Osama bin Laden was brought to justice. He led Al Qaeda. But now we face ISIS. It is overrunning areas that were cleared before. People are paying ultimate sacrifice. Nations secured in 2009 are now overrun. We are back at war again with more troops on the ground. Why? Hillary’s uranium deal and all that money given to Iran. Why?
852pmCT = What about home grown terrorism?
Pence: It all begins with reforming immigration system. Put the American people first. We need extreme vetting so we don’t bring people in who are hostile to the Bill of Rights and our way of life. Suspend Syrian refugees. Hillary wants to bring more of them in. We need to put the safety and security of the American people first. We need to look at where these people are coming from.
Kaine: Hillary and I want to bring in more refugees. We can’t keep people out just because they are from Syria or they are Muslim.
Pence: ISIS has infiltrated Europe via these supposed Syrian refugees. Paris’ 9/11 just happened. We need to suspend these refugee programs because we need to put the safety and security of the United States to be first.
Kaine: We will not discriminate based on countries that people come from.
Pence: We can’t know for certain who these people are and where they are coming from. You have to err on the side of the safety and security of the American people.
Moderator: What is an intelligence surge?
Kaine: Dramatically expanding intelligence capacities. We need people to be computing up on the computers. Strike partnerships with cyber sectors. We also need creating stronger alliances. We need to have allies to gather intelligence with. Alliances are critical. Trump says NATO is obsolete. Push aside the alliances and you can’t share intelligence. Hillary stopped the Iranian nuclear problem and that’s all solved now.
Pence: Trump just spoke on cyber security. Cyber warfare is the new warfare of asymmetrical enemies. We need to resource this effort. It’s important in this moment to remember that Hillary Clinton had a private server in her home with info on there about drone strikes and other things.
Moderator cuts him off. Kaine says that there was an investigation and no prosecutor wanted to prosecute her.
Kaine: the FBI did an investigation and they didn’t want to prosecute her so that’s that.
Pence: Talking about Syria: they need safe zones there. They need safe zones in Arab countries. Russian provocations need to be met with American strength. This all needs to be done there. Safe zones over there for refugees to go to.
The moderator keeps interrupting about time instead of letting them speak and get their points out.
Kaine: Hillary has the ability to stand up to Putin. Trump loves Putin. He had to fire his management team because he is pro-Putin. Trump thinks Putin is a better leader than Obama. He persecutes LGBT folks. (Why doesn’t Pence talk about how Muslims persecute gays?) Kaine then goes on about Trump not paying taxes. He didn’t pay taxes during 9/11. There were people who went to sign up to fight terrorism but Trump was fighting to avoid paying taxes and not support our troops. This is important Elaine, he does not support troops and veterans and teachers because he does not pay taxes. (This comes off as really crazy when he says this.)
Pence: Do you not take tax deductions Senator? I understand why you want to change the subject. There is an old proverb about the Russian bear never dying, just hibernating. All the while Obama folds his arms. We need American strength and resources. We need to act now to get people out of harm’s way. We need safe zones over there with a framework. The US needs to create a route for safe passage to safe zones in Syria. I was on the foreign affairs commit and I saw what people won during Iraqi Freedom.
Kaine: Let’s talk about what Pence doesn’t want to acknowledge. We stopped Iran’s nuclear program. Hillary killed Bin Laden. We have less troops overseas. Trump wants Saudi Arabia and Japan and South Korea to have nukes. Trump says that some fool or maniac will trigger a nuclear event.
Pence: That’s beneath even you and Hillary Clinton and that’s saying a lot. Reagan said a nuclear war should never be fought because a nuclear war can never be won. He keeps saying that Hillary prevented Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, but that’s not true. Iran is on the path to getting a nuclear weapon. You boycotted Netanyahu’s speech. (Kaine says he visited him later in his office.) The sanctions should have only been lifted if Iran would permanently renounce its nuclear ambitions. But they lifted the sanctions and gave them a ransom payment.
Kaine: He keeps refusing to defend his running mate’s positions.
Pence: I am happy to defend Donald Trump.
Moderator: I won’t let you speak. I will keep interrupting.
Kaine: We can’t praise Putin as a great leader. Trump has secret business dealings with Russia. Hillary Clinton goes toe to toe with Russia and she lodged protests against Russia in Georgia. Trump doesn’t even know that Russia invaded Ukraine. Hillary did New-START to reduce nuclear weapons. Trump needs to release his tax returns.
Pence: I’m trying to keep up with all the insults coming from over there. The American people know that this is all completely false. This is the alternate universe of DC versus reality. Hillary’s reset with Russia has led to all of this. Remember her famous “reset” back in 2009? The rise in aggressive Russia is on a pathway for Iran to get nukes. Iran is the leading state sponsor of terror. Syria. Look at that. It’s extraordinary. Syria is imploding. ISIS is headquartered in areas that were cleared in Iraqi Freedom. Kaine says that Obama made world more secure, but look at all this. Obama paid a huge ransom payment for Americans held in Tehran.
Moderator: Putin has no respect for Hillary but why would he respect Trump?
Pence: Trump is a strong leader who will rebuild our military. Our economy is 16x larger than Russia. We are superior to Russia in every way. The small and bullying leader in Russia has been stronger than Obama. That’s an indictment of Barack Obama.
Kaine: You can’t mistake leadership for dictatorship. Donald Trump’s sons killed a leopard! You have to watch out if Trump is going to watch his bottom line or someone else’s. Putin is a dictator he is not a leader. You need to learn Russian history. John McCain says he is KGB. Hillary knows that too. Hillary worked with Russia on New START treaty and she wanted them to help with Iran and stop its nuclear weapons, which we did and it’s all fine now and no shots were fired. We need to stop praising Putin as a great leader.
Moderator: I heard about North Korea. Does it have weapons?
Pence: We need to modernize our military. We need effective American diplomacy to put pressure on North Korea to abandon his nuclear ambitions. We need to denuclearize the Korean peninsula. We need to get the Chinese to stop building new islands in the South China Sea. We need to go back to days of strength. Hillary Clinton and her husband had that Clinton Foundation, the Foundation accepted tens of millions from foreign governments and foreign donors. They should not be participating in the US political process…but the Clintons setup the Foundation so they could give donations that way. As Secretary of State, Hillary was taking meetings with people who gave big money in pay to play via the Foundation.
Kaine: I am glad to talk about the Foundation. It is a charity. It gives AIDS drugs to some people. It deals with opium overdoses. It does some good work. Hillary took no action to benefit the Foundation. The Foundation and State Department investigated itself and found they did no wrong. The Trump organization only benefits octopuses. It has a lot of business dealings. It is not a nonprofit. His sons are up to something. Trump has a foundation too but it gives money to the Florida attorney general. They try to hide things and then someone was investigating Trump University.
Pence: The Trump Foundation goes to charitable causes. The Clinton Foundation’s money is just for the Clintons to travel the world and have their staff. Hillary needs to turn over her 33,000 emails.
Moderator: What if North Korea launches a missile at us or something?
Kaine: I would take action. You need intelligence. You have to take action. I went to an intelligence meeting in the Senate. China uses vetoes to veto packages. But China is getting worried about North Korea too. We need to work together with China. It’s competitive and challenging but the Chinese cooperate. Hillary went to China once and she said that women’s rights are human rights. I worry that Donald Trump owes money to China and he has been loaned money by China because he is terrible.
Moderator: Can you talk about your personal faith?
Kaine: I grew up with Irish Catholic parents and then was educated by Jesuit missionaries and Honduras. I am devote in my own way. I don’t believe in raising one religion over another. Hardest struggle is that Catholic Church is against death penalty and so am I. There are crimes that are heinous and I get attacked because I don’t like death penalty. But the law in Virginia is for death penalty. I allow executions to go forward and I uphold the law. We can’t substitute our views for others in society.
Pence: My Christian faith is very much the heart of who I am. We had church on Sunday mornings. We have followed a calling into public service. We cherish values. When I struggle, I think the sanctity of life is the most important. We have an ancient principle that before you were formed in the womb God knew you. State of Indiana wants to expand counseling that are non-abortion. Indiana is going to become the most pro-adoption state. Need to be pro-life. How can you support partial birth abortion? The idea that a child almost born could still have life taken is anathema. I can’t support a party that wants that. We should not have taxpayer funding of abortion. Faith informs my life. It begins with cherishing the dignity and worth of every human life.
Kaine: Fundamental question. Hillary is Methodist. You should live fully and with enthusiasm. But it is not the role of public servants to mandate things. We support Roe v. Wade for women to decide if they want to murder their babies inside the womb. We don’t think women should be stopped from murdering their babies. Pence wants to repeal Roe v. Wade. This is important. Before Roe v. Wade the states would punish women who murdered their babies. The last thing that government should do is punish women who murder their babies.
Pence: Trump and I would not support legislation to punish women. Trump is not a polished politician.
Kaine: Mexicans are rapists and John McCain is not a hero.
Pence: You whipped out that rapist thing again. There are criminal aliens who come here across that border. You keep forgetting that. The right to life is a principle that we all must embrace. Hillary does not support the Hyde Amendment. More young people are embracing life. We are better for it. Mother Theresa said to welcome the children into the world. Welcome them. Adopt them instead of aborting them.
Kaine: You don’t trust women to make choices for themselves. We need to live our lives with faith and enthusiasm but on fundamental issues of morality we need to make our own decisions.
Pence: Society is judged by how we handle the most fragile people. Donald Trump is pro-life.
Moderator: What will you do if you win the election?
Kaine: This has been a divisive campaign. We wrote a book called Stronger Together. It is on Amazon. Hillary was First Lady and then Senator and Secretary of State. Most people don’t know that. She worked across the aisle. She got a shit program passed about some kind of kids. She got health benefits for first responders. She got benefits for national guard people. She makes things happen. I have the same record. I was Governor of Virginia and found out that it has two houses. I worked with both of them.
Pence: This is a challenging time for America. Obama and Hillary weakened the country. We have been stifled by an avalanche of bad deals, the war on coal, Obamacare, etc. We need change in Washington DC. I was in Congress. I am the Governor of Indiana now. We need leadership. The American people want to see America standing tall and supporting the military. We need to command the world’s respect. We need an American comeback. Trump is all about building and going through hardship and finding a way through. Being resilient. We will have a stronger America. We will make American great again and have us be standing tall again. We will stand together and have unity.
Moderator: The debate is over and thank you to everybody. On Sunday there is another debate somewhere. So you should watch it.
Then everyone hugs and shakes hands.
You can call in and talk if you want too:
That’s a wrap!
It will be fun to see what all the talking heads say later and how it will be spun.
Check out Luntz’s focus group from Ohio. Pence won handedly.
And if you enjoy our writing, we have a book available on Amazon now with lots of fun stories and coverage of our local efforts in Chicagoland on the ground.
© 2016, Kevin DuJan. All rights reserved.
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