Facebook Focus Group: More evidence of growing dissonace within the gay community as gays suffer in the Obamaconomy
Here’s another “Facebook Focus Group” exchange I lifted off Facebook, where members of the gay community here in Boystown got into a political discussion on someone’s “wall”. The originator of this exchange tried spouting the same tired old cliches against conservatives the Left always trots out — including referring to the majority of Americans as “teabaggers”, as directed by Anderson Cooper of CNN — but surprisingly other gay men chided him for this, refudiating his DNC-approved talking points.
It’s fascinating to see conservatism alive and well in the hearts of many gay people, even though the Left still has a monopoly here in Boystown because of decades of well-orchestrated propaganda that makes gay men in particular attack the conservative side of the aisle for being “evil” on social issues, ignoring the common beliefs these gay guys might have regarding fiscal responsibility.
When the gay community starts noticing and caring that Democrats have nearly spent this country into oblivion by way of bloated entitlement programs, the Democrat party has a real problem on its hands.
The only thing preventing the gay split from the Left, in fact, is the Cocktail Party GOP establishment’s profound stupidity in continuing to allow certain social issues to be used as wedges to keep gays away.
If the Republican Party purely branded itself as the fiscally conservative party and conducted itself strongly this way on all matters — whether there is a stunt, manufactured crisis conjured up by the White House or not — there would be a lot of gays who’d stop listening to the brainwashing and would start voting in their own economic best interests.
Just read the exchange below and see how much potential there is to bring naturally conservative gay guys over to the Republican side of the ballot, if only the Cocktail Party GOP establishment was smart enough to adjust the Republican Party’s branding.
MARKUS: Thank you Tea Party for diverting America from financial disaster. Thank you for holding our armed forces and my father’s paychecks hostage. Thank you for protecting the “job creator” billionaires and oil company from making sacrifices and for turning this into a political issue that created uncertainty in the fragile stock market, has flirted with our U.S. credit rating and is driving my 401K lower.
RYE: Don’t think of blaming Obama for anything. Them racist tea parties caused all this.
JOHAN: Um, your welcome….. Jk
GENVIEVE: I know, my stock club is delaying purchases because of this whole debt ceiling uncertainty.
MARKUS: The Tea Baggers have said they aren’t interested in being re-elected and I agree. I am calling on my Facebook friends to ensure that you will be voting in next year’s election. Register to vote now and stay informed. If you are in the 8th district, please vote AGAINST Joe Walsh.
MARKUS: @Rye. I am not saying that Obama is totally clean here nor am I calling Tea Baggers racists. I am simply pointing out that it is interesting how this has come to such a politcal circus. How dare anyone flirt with not paying for bills that are already owed, regardless of how we got here. Not paying bills is truly ignorant.
RYE: It’s just you ignore so many solid facts and point blame to a party that is not even in the white house. When do democrats start to take responsibility for spending this country into the abyss
GENVIEVE: What is interesting to me is that our only real option was to raise the debt ceiling. No one is interested in cutting spending (unless it’s education) or raising taxes (heaven forbid we do away with the Bush tax cuts for “job creators” those who make over 200 grand a year). No one is innocent here, the parties don’t want to work together to do what’s best for the country. They only care about their special interests.
RYE: So quit pointing fingers
GENVIEVE: I already did, how about you?
MARKUS: The biggest fact you are missing Rye is that Bush increased our debt from 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion. Umm.. looks like double to me…but you are the math person. Until Obama reaches that level (which looks highly unlikely) then the biggest finger gets pointed to the Bush administration.
RYE: Ok markus you are making a fool of yourself right now. Obama has taken the debt from bush and every president since George Washington and still has more debt than all combined. Seriously, for the sake of not making a bigger fool of yourself , please, please have a logical , correct statement
RYE: You are such a typical liberal. Your statements are based soley on emotion rather than fact.
MARKUS: Rye. I am trying to post a link online that sites these facts. From npr.org. You have yet to site any facts to the contrary. Who is the real FOOL here?
DICK: Wow… Rye sure drank that kool-aid.
RAY: Markus, I wouldn’t waste my time arguing with people like Rye. It’s like rolling in the mud with a pig. You get filthy muddy – but the pig likes it.
RYE: Ok Dick, which part of what I stated is false and disprove before you make blank unanswered jabs at me. How Im the world are concrete facts equate to me “drinking look aid”? Open ended insults really do nothing for proving a point other than lack of facts ridiculous immaturity
MARKUS: Rye. The Kool aid you are drinking is the one where you are in DENIAL that this debt started with the Obama administration. Do I need to prove the fact that it started with W? Somehow you think this just started in 2010 when Obama took office. Drink that Kool-Aid honey. Gulp Gulp.
RYE: Ok.. one.. when did I ever say there was no debt when bush was president?? You did not even read what was said. This president has taken bushs debt and added more than all presidents debt combined. Don’t call me honey . Gulp gulp bc that is fact not kool aid gulp
DICK: Check this chart — Obama’s contribution: 1.6 Trillion. Bush II’s contribution: 6 Trillion. Where do you get YOUR figures? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms Another source, in case you think Wikipedia isn’t reliable. Obama’s PROJECTED debt could be higher than Bush’s — but that’s PROJECTED. You Tea Party whackos only see the forest, and not the trees. http://thenationaldebtcrisis.com/the-national-debt-by-president/
RYE: Ok I will just come out and say it. Dick u are an idiot. Obama has accumulated over 149 trillion on his own. Seriously don’t waste my time u moron. U have no facts and have no idea where u are pulling the bullshit stats from, but seriously, just sit down
DICK: Heh… okay… I posted the facts. And the sources. Typical wingnut… can’t handle the truth.
AURIC: Thank the White-bearded God in the sky and the lilly white Jesus for the Trickle Down Effect. When all those Corporoate CEOs got those big bonuses, their new purchases of luxury items and vacations abroad really helped our economy bounce back! Case in point- we avoided a major debt crisis!!
TIMMY: Thanks to the tea party, we have ignorant “people” casting votes to destroy our country. Vote out all tea partiers/baggers in 2012. And then kill them!
RYE: I’m noticing a pattern of insults with no facts whatsoever. Emotion vs facts
TIMMY: @RYE. Yes. I think you are ignorant. I hope you get AIDS and die.
MARKUS: Rye you still haven’t answered with any citation of facts…and calling fellow Facebookers “idiots” is emotional. Who are you…Dick Cheney?
RYE: Markus, Im on my phone and would be happy to share my sources when I get home
AURIC: Fact: The government is for The People and by The People; when you put money into the governemnt, you are still putting money into yourself, your family, your community and your country. Weren’t Republicans supposed to be patriotic? We need to give the government more of our money so we can have more money, you idiot.
RYE: Only true when your beloved politicians arent stealing and manipulating every dollar u give them. Would u really trust politicians with your life? You’re not a total fool are u?
MARKUS: Rye it looks like you have persuaded no one here. Everyone is welcome to continue the thread but I must call it a night. I have to work tomorrow to keep our wars funded. Once again, I am calling on my Facebook friends to ensure that you will be voting in next year’s election. Register to vote now and stay informed. Consider factcheck.org or npr.org. If you are in the 8th district, please vote AGAINST Joe Walsh in 2012!
MARKUS: @ Rye: you are expressing what psychiatrists would identify as an emotional state called PARANOIA.
TIMMY: vote AGAINST ALL GOP IN 2012 ,, P.S. I am pretty sure this status and my new profile pic will be my #1 and #2 status of 2011. LOL! I hate those Christian fuckers!
RYE: Well u have liberal friends so of course I would be outnumbered . And said anything about persuading anyone. An idiot will always be an idiot and you and your Facebook friends have proven my point in volumes. Goodnight confused and lost one and also to your sub friends. Ciao
JORDAN: There’s nothing wrong with a lot of the gop today, there are plenty of descent people. The same goes for the liberal side. The issue is is that the extremes (tea party, palin, pelosi, etc)of each side get the media attention and shine bad lights on both parties. Both sides have been completely wrong in this situation, dems and repbs.
CASSIE: Rye, I don’t know you, but thank you for being educated on the facts!
Don’t you just love how Rye held his own up there?
I won’t give up his real name, but I bet you’d be surprised to know the guy is a go-go dancer here in Boystown, buffed out and beautiful, all of 21 or 22 years of age.
So, evidently, whatever is typically so effective at getting to gay men and convincing them they must be staunch Leftists failed in this case.
Perhaps Rye, who graduated college recently, sees the “Golden Age of Hope and Change” that is the Obama presidency has delivered none of the hopeychange-flavored unicorns “The One”, our illustrious King Putt, promised back in 2008.
What common Leftist attacks did you see in play above?
What are effective ways to counter these attacks the Rye could have used?
Can you think of anything you would have said back to Markus, Timmy, Johan, Genieve, or Auric in the above?
What think you?
© 2011, Kevin DuJan. All rights reserved.
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I would love to know who is putting out those bogus numbers about Bush creating a 6 trillion deficit vs Obama's 1.6 trillion? I've seen someone else quote that on another website so it must be the Liberal talking point for the week. Gateway Pundit has the stats on the real deficit numbers: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/08/libs-whin….
Good link, the graph indicates that Bush never went more than $500 billion in debt in any given year, thus we're assured that it was not more that $4 trillion, and by eyeball guesstimate, I'd say it looks to be ballpark $2 trillion.
Wasn't most of the Porkulus borrowed money? there's $800 billion on the first spending bill The Won signed!
They're talking about the debt, not the deficit. Markus correctly notes that the debt increased from 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion under the Bush Presidency. What he fails to note is that this happened over an eight year period.
Whereas the debt under Obama has increased from 10.6 trillion to 14.3 trillion in close to three years. That's an increase of 4.9 trillion over eight years versus an increase of 3.7 trillion over three. Obama has had less than half the time of President Bush but he's almost caught up to his spending. Spending that leftists decried as outrageously and irresponsibly high at the time. Strange how the debt isn't such a big deal to them now, right?
What exacerbates this is the situation that you've noted. Namely that Obama has tripled the deficit to the tune of about one trillion dollars a year. So as things stand, every year at least one trillion dollars will be added to the debt. But it's more likely to be greater since federal budgets tend to expand rather than shrink. Especially with Obama in office.
If anybody is interested, I grabbed the debt figures from: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?applica…
Just plug in a range of dates and it will show you the debt between those periods.
Thanks, Zeal! I appreciate your help in keeping my facts straight.
I can't believe anyone would take the numbers at Wikipedia seriously or use them to make a point in a debate. Thank you Zeal for the Dept of Treasury numbers.
The point of the whole thing is to bring gays to the republican side of this debate and how we are going to do it. I think being armed with the facts is a great starting point.
D55, not everything on Wiki is bad. Sometimes it is the best distillation, or abstract if you will, of the information of several other, more "legitimate" sources. I'll often use well footnoted Wiki articles to make a point. Like anything else, you can't trust just one source.
Thank you for that link Red.
RE: "Libs Whine About Tea Party – Say Obama Had Successful First 2 Years"
That's what the Lib/Retrogressives say now. But I remember those same Lib/Retrogressives whining NON-STOP about weenie Obama for all those first two years!!!
Facebook focus groups are a great idea, and one I have been advocating for some time. I have a huge variety of friends on my list, many of whom are politically involved (everything from socialist, to general uninformed liberal talking point parrot, to political science major, to law major, to DC-beltway-political workers, to conservative bloggers, to tea party activists, to libertarians). I will have to send you some of the great conversations we were having in the last few weeks.
Timmy wants to kill "tea partiers/baggers", or hopes they get AIDS and die. Now, the standard meme is that Tea Party people are haters, racists, homophobes, bigots, and potentially violent. But it's ok for Timmy to say he'd like to kill them or hopes they get AIDS and die, because he's on the left, so it's acceptable and somehow NOT hateful or potentially violent. And why is it OK to call us "teabaggers" when the real meaning of that term has absolutely no relevance to conservative political fiscal thinking?
The "teabag" thing goes back to the first stirrings of the TEA movement – sending tea bags along with letters of protest to the capons in congress as a token of the Boston Tea Party and to send the message we are Taxed Enough Already.
Re violence and threats of violence. This is nothing new, left wing violence has a long history in the US, but most especially in the last 40 or 50 years. Remember the riots at the 68 Dem. convention in Chicago? Look at the anti-war demonstrations during the Viet Nam War – how many of them turned violent? And all the social/political change groups like the Weathermen, Weather Underground, SDS, and the like – all violent, bomb planting left wing groups. And the various groups like ELF, ALF, PETA, Earthfirst, and Greenpeace. All left leaning, violent and confrontational. It is pretty much policy for the left to preach peace, charge the right with being violent, and stage their own violent confrontations.
Not to say that there are not violent nuts on the right. I think what irks the left is that when a right wing nut does engage in violence, he is usually impressively successful.
And, something completely aside – what the heck is meant by "the gay community?" From what I've seen there is no monolithic gay block.
Hi. I am a conservative animal advocate. Please tell me where PeTA, ALF and Greenpeace have been violent. Please.
They are not. Animal Liberation Front does not harm any being. They have destroyed devices that harm animals or open cages but not violent. Peta? I don't know where you are getting they are violent…WHERE??? And GreenPeace? At best Greenpeace is ineffectual, but not violent.
I agree, though, with your other points. But, please, let's keep it honest here.\
Oh, and by the way, animal activism is NOT LEFT even though many are. I know conservative animal advocates who love Ron Paul, despise leftism. It is about compassion and respect for all beings which I think we should all be on board with, no matter our politics.
Hmm……bombing labs – that sound kind of violent to me. Torching logging equipment – that too sounds violent. Tree spiking, which ALF and Greenpeace have in the past claimed to have done, has resulted in loggers and mill workers being injured.
I'm not sure what group is behind Whale Wars, but those people are committing acts of piracy, they have attacked the crew on vessels going about legal commerce on the seas. Those are also acts of violence.
OK, so only 99 44/100s of the members of the groups I mentioned are leftists, and I suspect that there is a lot of crossover in those groups – people being involved in more than one of them. That doesn't mean that the predominant political leanings of those groups isn't strongly to the left. I know democrats who own guns and support the RKBA, that doesn't mean that the stance of the DNC isn't that the 2nd should be legislated out of existence.
Where has PETA bombed labs? Seriously! You mention torching logging equipment and tree spiking. I give you that…but I didn't rebute you with Earth first, did I? ALF goes in a rescues animals. They never hurt anyone! Yes, they are "underground" but their ethos is actually non violence. ALF "tree spiking"? I've never heard that one. ALF does not focus on the earth, they are an animal group.
As far as Whale Wars….hmmm let's see they use stink bombs, really violent.
Where is the real violence? Whales are being killed under the guise of "research" when it's for meat, which is illegal. Have you watched Earthlings or any of the many recent investigations on factory farms, slaughterhouses and feedlots? That is where the real violence is…everyday but that doesn't seem to bother you. That kind of violence is OK.
Animal advocacy is not left. Yes, there are leftists in there but please visit this site: http://www.all-creatures.org. It's a CHRISTIAN site that advocates we stop killing, harming animals and that our proper place is kindness and respect for God's creation. Not exactly left.
Also, the book by Mathew Scully, it has the word "Dominion" on the title "A call to mercy". He is conservative, a speech writer for Palin no doubt, but is very concerned about our treatment of animals.
Please, tell me again where PETA has BOMBED a lab?
And please, look up "slaughterhouse investigations", "animal experiment investigations", "feedlots", investigations into dairy farms, you will find where the true violent people are.
Geesh.
Again, I want to say animal activism in NOT inherently left. Their goal is not bigger government, leftist politics, race baiting and all the other things we cannot stand.
Their goal is to educate others on what happens to "food" animals, how it effects our environment and health, what happens in labs and to reduce animal suffering.
As I listed above, BOTH types of individuals, conservative and liberal, sign on to these beliefs. I know one leader of a prominant Los Angeles animal activist group who supports Ron Paul and cannot stand Obama.
Please separate the two.
Replying to your two posts…
CO, CA, and I think OR for PETA bombing labs. At the very least. I didn't bother to write the stuff down, ya know? Not to mention PETA members assaulting people and destroying personal property of others. "They never hurt anyone" – so then, if no one is hurt that means there is no violence? By the way, why does PETA kill off so many animals that could be adopted out?
Yes, ALF tree spiking…keeping ANIMAL habitat from being destroyed. Or, people claiming to be with ALF claiming to have spiked trees in CA and OR. (I'm sure that I'll now be told that if they did that they are somehow not TRUE members of ALF, or some such tale).
Whale wars , yep….throwing a liquid filled bottle at a person is no different than throwing a rock at them. The bottles contained an oily substance which made the decks slippery. Rough seas, heavy objects thrown at people, intentionally making decks slippery – I call that attempted murder.
OK, I'll take your word that none of the groups I listed have any affiliation with anything left of center. Most members just usually vote left, have cars covered with stickers supporting leftist causes, use left wing rhetoric against conservative politicians and support leftist politicians. But they aren't left leaning. Nope. Not at all.
And Obama knew nothing about the hate and racism being preached in the parish he attended for over 20 years. Nor does he know anything about Gunrunner even though he signed a bill that he signed.
Please provide PROOF of PETA BOMBING labs. Proof, please. Yes, you have to write things down.
I am PROOF that animal activism is not left!!! I just told youl. I told you of Mathew Scully, of another leader of a LA group (I won't divulge his name due to privacy) and me, and others who are NOT LEFT!
These groups do not espouse leftist politics! They do not espouse more taxes, bigger government, etc etc as I mentioned before.
Conservatives are on board to stop the horrific animal suffering we inflict on innocent animals for our taste buds and ridiculous frivolous desires. It is about that, the violence toward innocent beings, not leftism.
I am not going to argue with you anymore. You are myopic. And you ignored my telling you to watch Earthings (it's free on the net) and all the other investigations into fur farms, dairy farms, factory farming, etc. If you can't do that then, and see what these groups are fighting, then there is nothing I can say. You are not being fair minded and do not want to see the truth…like so many millions of Americans who simply do not want to see. That is you. Be proud.
I am done with small mindedness.
So…because you and a few others you know are conservatives you say that none of the animal rights groups are leftist. By your reasoning, I am proof that no conservative Christians are homophobic. Including the Phelpsians commonly known as Westboro Baptist.
No, I'm not ignoring your demand that I watch "Earthings." I tried watching it and turned it off as I saw it as worthless drivel and emotionalism.
http://www.squidoo.com/extreme-peta
http://www.undueinfluence.com/peta.htm
(not sure how many links I can post at one go, so I'm leaving it at two as representative of many, dating back into the '80s)
They are not leftist because they do not work for leftist ideals…I said this several times over. Never in my experience of animal activism have I ever heard of a group going beyond what is happening to animals. Never. It's about animal suffering, period.
There is not much I can say to someone who has said that "Earthlings" was emotionalism and drivel. Wow. Either you didn't really view it or you truly are heartless because even the most strident of conservatives would find it hard to watch and be moved by it. Nothing more to say.
One thing IS true. Although I am conservative now for many many reasons, often times conservatives ARE lacking heart. Scarily so. You appear to be one of them, not much to be proud of IMO.
So then, your argument is that even though the vast majority of the members are leftists, the groups officially support leftist politicians, many of the items on their agenda fit solidly within leftist platforms, they are not leftist because you say they are not leftist. And because you and a few other conservatives are in them. As I said, I know Democrats who own guns, but that doesn't mean that the DNC is pro-gun.
And, yes, like any polemic piece "Earthlings" is using emotion to sway people. Stuff hard to watch? Yeah it is. But it was also carefully picked out to have that effect. I don't need to touch a glowing coal over and over to get the idea it is hot, neither do I have to watch an hour and a half of propaganda to get the message that mankind is evil for using animal products. Or, more to the point, for using animals in any way for any purpose.
Animal Rights activism is inherently leftist. Sorry. You're wrong. Ingrid Newkirk said "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy." Leftists believe animals should be afforded the same rights as humans. That is not a conservative position since conservatives believe HUMANS have inherent rights and that human life is sacred. As much as I love animals (and, believe it or not, I used to be a nutcase PETA member years ago), they are not the same as humans. When I was a nutcase PETA member, there was some debate about the first use of a baboon heart to save a human life. I, like all my PETA comrades, believed no Baboon should be used to save a human life because we believed animal life was equal to human life. No conservative would take that position and, if they did, it would have to do with other reasoning– not because baboons' lives are equal to humans.
Have you looked at this?: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ Peta also ruins personal property. You're against furs, but that doesn't give Peta people the right to throw buckets of red paint over property they don't own, They have since disavowed this practice, but they used to do it regularly in the 80s and 90s.
Animal Liberation Front is a violent organization, too. Steven Best co-founded both the Earth Liberation and the Animal Liberation front and wrote "Revolution: Voices in Defense of Earth" Even the ADL (leftist organization) names them as a "terrorist organization". http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp And, they don't bomb? Yes, they do: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2006/dec/08/ani…
Just because it's a Leftist cause, doesn't mean all the work is bad, soleil. Nobody wants to see animals needlessly suffer, as far as I know. And, I love my two kitties (but not as much as my children). But, yes, animal rights groups are leftist.
One thing that wasn't mentioned was that Øbama has never been forced to operate on a budget. As pres, he is required to submit a budget, which he does, but they are such a joke that none of his own party votes for it. The last budget he submitted was voted down 99-0.
Did you notice how Tim called for all tea partiers to be killed and for Rye to get AIDS and die.
I love the tolerance of the left.
But what really scares me is that the complete lack of economic education in this country means that the Dems can get away with this bullshit.
I get really peeved by this!!!
Raising tax rates WILL NOT increase revenues to the treasury. The Ds and the Rs KNOW this. That is why they extended the tax cut (I don't know how the Rs got blamed for this, tho, it was completely on the Ds!!!). When tax rates are lowered, revenues to the treasury INCREASE. Why doesn't everyone shout this (especially when you decrease rates on the top percentage of earners, those people have the most ability to change their incomes).
So if raising rates will only decrease revenues, why raise rates on the top earners??? Makes no sense.
ALSO – *if* raising rates *did* increase revenues…why would you do that anyway? Do these people need MORE money? NOOO!!!! They do not need one more penny. They need to get spending under control.
Awww….FB culture. Every day I read something stupid and lacking fair mindedness on FB. The thing is, as a conservative, I don't feel feel to share my feelings. I wonder if others feel the same. But, THEY DO, no matter how DUMB.
Latest thread was about the debt limit. One of the most radical people on my "friends" list…was just out to lunch. Basically saying capitalism is the problem, she doesn't feel ANY cuts are necessary and doesn't want government workers to be cut AT ALL (funny how she is one). It's all about the poor, the needy, government workers at any cost (never mind the cheating with welfare that happens all the time, or the excesses of government…all is good).
One man had the courage to post. He was a long time vegetarian but also an inventer, had many businesses was very successul and was more positive about our country. They got into it a bit. Of course, to this woman, "R", everything about this country stinks. She was so negative and spreads the negativity to the kids she teaches.
I think conservatives are in the closet on social media.
I just researched who raised the national debt more, Dems or Reps, and here are the facts:
Since budgets and spending are a function of Congress, and originate in the House, the party that controls Congress matters more than who controls the Presidency.
Republicans controlled both the House and Senate from 1995 – 2006, with the exception of 2 years when the Senate flipped Democrat by a slight margin, and in that time they added 3.6 trillion to the national debt – in 11 YEARS, WITH BOTH WARS INCLUDED.
Democrats took control of both the House and Senate in 2007, and in just 3 SHORT YEARS, increased the national debt by another 5 trillion dollars. Nancy Pelosi's watch.
The President can propose a budget…and of course sign or veto it, and so bears some of the responsibility for spending…but it is Congress who controls the purse strings. Everyone focused on mostly blaming Bush and Obama for our national debt woes are really missing most of the story. If Republicans controlled the Senate this year, the President would have had little choice but to hold his nose and sign whatever a Republican controlled Congress deemed to send him (like Clinton did in the mid-90s).
After the S&P announcement last night you're going to want to read this – some good facts & figures available. Leave it to the Brits to have their facts straight: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/10… – even the comments are worth the time to read.