First of all, this is more than just an exercise in fantasy — even though we don’t believe for a moment Hillary Clinton would ever run for office as an Independent. She is a former Democrat First Lady. She was a Democrat Senator. She’s currently a Democrat Secretary of State.
Clinton also knows third party candidates are merely spoilers. They are pushed, usually by the Left, to take down another candidate by splitting his or her vote. Think Ross Perot taking enough votes away from George H.W. Bush to hand the election to Bill Clinton in 1992…or Ralph Nader getting enough of Al Gore’s votes in 2000 to push George W. Bush over the top (an instance of Republicans using a third party candidate to hurt Democrats for a change). Another example is the DNC using John Edwards in 2008 to hand the Iowa Caucus to Dr. Utopia, by taking enough of Hillary Clinton’s vote to give the DNC’s favored candidate the win.
In 2012, we believe the DNC will use Mike Bloomberg in New York as a Ross Perot-esque third party spoiler to take enough votes away from Sarah Palin to give Dr. Utopia a second term. That’s the game plan.
A recent Marist poll showed this to be the case: polling a race between the current president, Sarah Palin, and Mike Bloomberg as an Independent third party candidate. In that scenario, Dr. Utopia squeaks out a win. Deliberately, Marist did not poll Dr. Utopia up against Palin in a head-to-head match, sans Bloomberg. We believe that poll would show Palin leading the race, for the first time…something the MSM does NOT want you to see.
We wonder what would happen if someone ran a poll of Dr. Utopia vs. Sarah Palin vs. Hillary Clinton as an Independent. Just for fun.
We bet Palin would win big in that race, since Clinton would take a very large share of Utopia’s votes away from him.
As we said, the likelihood of Clinton ever running as a third party candidate is ZERO.
We believe fostering third parties is highly dangerous, as you are just falling into the Democrats’ plans for 2012.
A third party candidate in the 2012 race is the only way Utopia gets that second term…you need to realize this and do everything you can to stop the DNC from getting away with this scheme. They are telegraphing their moves miles and years away.
Would Republicans really be stupid enough to throw votes to Bloomberg, at the expense of Palin, and hand Utopia a second term?
How much panic would a Utopia-Palin-Clinton poll cause the DNC?
What do you think of all of this?
February 8, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Bloomberg? A spoiler for Palin? Nay, my friends, he would be a spoiler for the Democrat who runs.
Why? Because he is a progressive. A nanny-stater, an Eastern Snob.
Those who would vote for him are the same people who voted for Obama.
Trust me on this.
February 8, 2010 at 8:28 pm
I agree. Actually, I’m not so sure he would take a lot of votes from either candidate. After all, how much did third-party candidates affect the 2008 election?
Also, I think up close and personal Bloomberg comes off as a snaky guy who shifts with the winds; he may stubbornly support nanny-statism on gun-control and the AGW hoax, but he lacks anything like a core set of principles that usually defines third-party candidates.
Consider Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, or Bob Barr: each represented a well-defined platform in opposition to those of both major parties. Each ran on a very specific *philosophy of governance*, which is something people perpetually hunger for but rarely get from the pols who come out of the two major parties.
Really, the last major candidate who ran on such a philosophy was Ronald Reagan — and he was an unstoppable force, partly because of that: people want something to believe in, and he gave them a vision based on *principles*.
It was a strategy that Obama mimicked — but mimicked is the key word, for there was never any actual philosophy there. All there was was the *illusion* of a philosophy, embodied (in part) in the “there are no red states, there are no blue states” refrain. To the young and inexperienced, and to those whipped up by the press and by legitimate failures of the Bush administration, however, that refrain sounded like something.
But what would Bloomberg stand for? Without any guiding philosophy of governance, all he would have would be a grab-bag of positions, some of which would be embraced by Obama, while others would be embraced by the GOP candidate.
In other words, Bloomberg would offer mush, and the electorate is not hungry for mush. And that hunger will not merely hold going into 2012, it will grow. As regards the deficit, the Islamic terror threat, and the job market, Americans will be looking for sharply-drawn lines, specifics–a coherent worldview.
In any case, whoever would vote for Bloomberg would do so as a protest against the main candidates. A narcissistic prick like David Frum or an airhead like Chris Buckley might jump on a Bloomberg bandwagon — but in my opinion, that would be one lonely hayride.
February 8, 2010 at 9:26 pm
I also agree. He was a Democrat before he was a Republican, I think. Anyway, he is definitely a Progressive.
February 9, 2010 at 12:33 am
Genau! Was in Manhattan a few weeks ago at a goth club (gee!) talking with some locals and they hate Bloomberg.
February 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm
I think it’s a very interesting strategy. I agree with you that Hillary’s time has come and gone; it will be interesting to see what she ends up doing and who she ends up supporting in 2012, because I just don’t see it being Obama. And really, by that time, what will she have to lose? Nothing. People will want to know what she thinks, and I believe she’ll have some stories to tell.
As far as Palin: she appears to be doing everything right currently. She’s smart, savvy, and really coming out publicly as smarter and more of a leader than Obama; her facebook editorials are really a great example of her emergence as a true candidate. People will want to take a second look, I think. I expect more media slams, but she just seems prepared for it this time. Since I’m not from the east, I don’t see the Bloomberg independent candidate pulling that many votes, but I do trust HB’s instincts, so it’s worth keeping track of.
February 8, 2010 at 7:25 pm
I didn’t take the boyz think Hillary’s time has come and gone from their post.
February 8, 2010 at 7:32 pm
We said she won’t run as an Independent.
Not that she would not run again.
She will run again and be President. We just don’t know what year.
But, it will be as a Democrat.
February 8, 2010 at 8:31 pm
I think she should run for governor of NY, then run for POTUS in 2016.
February 9, 2010 at 12:35 am
Luckily for her, O didn’t nominate her to the Supreme Court, which she would’ve taken – well, I don’t know that, but pretty hard to turn down – and then she’d be stuck for life unless she resigned to run, which would be crass. What’s-his-name did it the other way around.
February 8, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Once Hillary is out of S.O.S. not only would I be interested in who SHE supports… I would be interested in hearing what Bill Clinton has to say. I think once she is out from under O’s thumb it will “free up” Bill Clinton to perhaps speak more freely. Of course, he will be “between a rock and a hard place” in a way, because- just like Hillary- Bill is deeply entrenched in the democrat party; and I think both of them will be careful of turning the party leaders against them by blasting The One…
As for Bloomberg: I don’t think many are going to follow him. He is, in a way, like Specter in wavering between being a “semi-progressive” democrat and a “progressive” republican. I honestly think Specter is, when they look at his past, a “bad taste” in the mouth of his constituents; and I think the same would happen if Bloomberg ran for POTUS. While he may pull SOME R’s, I think if he pulls anybody it’ll be more D’s than anything else.
February 9, 2010 at 12:48 am
Yeah, too true, but I think both Bill and Hillary will be savvy enough to make their feelings known without doing it outright and obvious.
Sorry to miscommunicate HB’s opinion of Hillary running again for Pres. My own opinion only. I do not share the love of Hillary, but I do think she would be doing a better job if she had been elected. I have gained a lot of respect for her since Obama took office, and I’m interested to see her next move.
February 8, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Its hard to predict the future (2012). But if the election was held today, she would win the democrat primary.
February 9, 2010 at 12:33 am
bingo!
February 9, 2010 at 1:50 am
Amen.
February 9, 2010 at 5:57 pm
I wish she would run just to piss off BO and all the Dems who backstabbed Hillary.
February 8, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Yes, some Republicans (like Peggy Noonan and David Frum) would be that stupid. They, wrongly, believe O will some day condescend to listen to their advice and they know Sarah, rightly, never will.
February 8, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Hillary against Obama? at least 18 million, plus all the people that realized they made a mistake in voting for Obama.
I still hope Obama decides not to run in 12 for “health reasons” because his numbers are SO low, then Hillary could run.
I did read some interesting comments today, I don’t believe them, but there are interesting, That Obama would nominate Biden for the Supreme court and then ask Hillary to be VP
February 8, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Hah! Biden on the Supreme Court!
It’s funny — and frightening — to imagine, but I don’t see it happening. It would be the most nakedly-political appointment imaginable; Biden is beyond unqualified for the job. A traffic-court judgeship, however, I could see…
February 9, 2010 at 5:54 am
As absurd as it seems, I wouldn’t put it past Obummer to do it. It would further demean the Court, which he was already gone out of his way to disrespect. After all, if you make a mockery out of another co-equal branch of government, your own administration doesn’t look so bad in comparison. If you promote doofuses like Biden to the highest Court in the land, then the great legal minds that are already there don’t look so impressive. Make a joke of everything, then nothing can be taken seriously.
February 9, 2010 at 8:15 am
Perhaps he could be appointed to the post of federal unicorn catcher.
February 8, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Rush repeated this story as a rumor today, and it was reported in at least a couple of papers.
February 9, 2010 at 1:22 am
Obozo’s numbers are so bad – and I don’t believe they will get any better – that if you think about this logically, maybe the only way to save himself is what Lyn stated. It’s gotten to the point that even BO knows he needs to have a SANE & KNOWN dem save him or at least make him look better than he does now and I think he knows that Hillary is that person.
I don’t think she would do it, but politics are strange. At least, I hope she wouldn’t do it. Besides, she is certainly smart enough to “read the handwriting on the wall” and for those of you that know her well, do you really think she would consider saving that fool BO after the havoc he wrecked upon her in the primary?
As far as Hillary running/winning against BO, all you have to do is look at the numbers: Liberals (progressives, Marxist, whatever they are) 20%; conservatives 40%; independents & others 40%. When you consider those numbers, I think the Boyz question is conclusively answered!
February 9, 2010 at 12:17 pm
I wonder what would happen IF instead of saving him now and helping him get re elected, it was to help him now, with the plan on him not running for re eelction and she would be the sitting VP. Since he really doesn’t like the actual work of running the country, but he would still enjoy many perks as being a past POTUS
February 8, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Practically upon seeing the story reported over at the C4P blog, the alarm bells were a’ ringing. I too think that this poll is a harbinger of a plan that is already in the works (i.e., ready to be implemented, if a bit more than a year from now the circumstances seem propitious) — the main challenge being to induce B. to run in the first place. (And that task would not be so much of a challenge, in his caes, when approached with some finesse.) So, if he decided to enter the race, I think he might just draw enough votes in certain key states — I’ll just mention Florida as perhaps the most obvious one, but there could be a few others in this category, it seems to me — to hand them to Obama.
Boyz, in my view, you are quite right to smell something amiss, even though it is still many months off. Sheer fantasy this is not, I’m fairly sure of it.
February 9, 2010 at 12:36 am
what does Bloomberg have to gain by doing that? Nothing that I can see.
February 9, 2010 at 8:18 am
Well, what I think is easy to overlook as a factor in this scenario is Bloomberg’s vanity, which is considerable. Were the Democrats, sub rosa of course, to work on that and stoke it into flame, then he might just be tempted to run.
February 8, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Hillary would never be an Indie. Hello, she started as a Goldwater Republican. Oddly enough, that’s pretty close to where Sarah is today. Hillary has her principles. I would sooner see her back Palin in 2012 and to hell with all the back stabbers.
February 8, 2010 at 8:02 pm
One other point: I don’t think it will be long before Rasmussen has a poll out showing how Obama and Palin match up in a two-way race. But maybe they’ll take up the gauntlet and also poll a three-way with O, Palin, and Clinton.
February 8, 2010 at 8:36 pm
I don’t believe a 3rd party is going to impact the coming election. Third parties take incredible energy, a huge following, somebody like Ross Perot. Hillary is moderate, she’s not the kind of person that would collect a lot of 3rd party votes, she’s mainstream. Somebody like Ron Paul perhaps, he could take some votes away from both Dems and R’s, perhaps enough to cause an Obama re-election.
But I don’t know, only 26% of the people are happy with Obama right now and we still got three years to go. If something doesn’t change soon, we could have a landslide that delivers us a one termer, 3rd parties or not.
February 8, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Ron Paul is my worst nightmare for just that reason. (Splitting the vote ala Perot.) Well–next to Obama actually having a second term it is.
February 8, 2010 at 8:50 pm
While speculating here in the realm of fantasy, a grin-worthy thought entered my head — if Obama got the D nomination in 2012 and then Hillary deliberately ran as a spoiler Indy to make sure Sarah won the general election. Again, total fantasy, but wouldn’t that be a fabulous way of sticking it to the Obots?
February 8, 2010 at 9:07 pm
I seldom play the prediction game but, I cannot imagine BO will be the D nominee for POTUS in 2012. Because within the next several days, the overwhelming circumstantial evidence is about to hit the fan, supporting citizens’ charges to state A’sG, that members of the D Corporation committed election fraud in 2008 to get his name on the ballot, in those states that only allow the names of eligible candidates to use state ballots. This election fraud consists of Certifying to state election officials in those states, he was Constitutionally qualified to be POTUS, BEFORE ascertaining he was eligible for the job. How do we know this likely happened? Because no one who submitted these Certifications to state election officials, will tell us, on what documentary basis they determined his eligibility. While in every other state identified, no law gives citizens the right to obtain documents being held by the political party, that’s not the case in Texas. And that’s where the fraud is going to explode; because using that state’s strong open records law, we have now filed a request for those documents with Boyd Richie, TX D party Chair. And, in this case, saying ‘I don’t have to show you’ is a lie; saying nothing, by law, is as good as admitting, there are such public records (even though, in reality, no such records exist). At that point, the law allows the court to compel such disclosure. I will update this post as events develop. http://jbjd.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/remember-the-alamo/
February 8, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Wow, thanks for the link to your site. I’m eagerly waiting for further news on this explosive issue.
When I think of the caucus fraud, the slandering and character attacks on Hillary and her supporters, the DNC rules committee handing Obama Hillary’s delegates, and the charade of the democratic convention, I’m not a bit sorry if this proves to be the dems. “Waterloo”! Just praying and hoping this is it!
February 8, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Wow! Yes…please do keep us posted.
February 8, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Luv you guys! But I have to disagree with you on this one. As a former NYer, I can tell you for a fact that Bloomberg is just as bad as Dr. Utopia. He has raised property taxes, sales taxes; he wants to control fat intake, salt intake. No Republicans from the middle states would ever vote for him if Gov. Palin could point to the destruction of NYC under this rule. He is NOT a Republican and he is NOT an Independent. The only reason he’s serving a third term is because he had the legislators overturn the will of the people who voted for term limits and there are too many welfare recipients in the state for him not to have won.
I love my former city, at least I did under Rudy. I have family back there but never in a million years would I ever live there again after what Bloomberg has done to it.
February 8, 2010 at 9:31 pm
I don’t see Hillary running as an “independent” either but who knows? Stranger things have happened. Who would have guessed just 2 years ago that the democratic party would “blow it” this badly? I caught a small portion of an interview that Candy Crowley of CNN did with Hillary yesterday morning. Candy asked Hillary about the health care reform bill and Hillary said that the president was still hopeful. Hillary said she hoped for a “positive outcome”. I thought Hillary was being very diplomatic – never gave herself away. A “positive outcome” could mean almost anything.
I see a couple of problems for Hillary in 2012. If Obama’s poll numbers continue to dive and the republicans win big this fall, Hillary would have to divorce herself from this administration early. I don’t see her doing that – mainly out of loyalty.
Even if she decided to leave her position as SOS and run as an “independent” she becomes the “spoiler”. She has every right to do something like this but I think for her, the consequences would be grave politically. It’s unfair but many have held Hillary to much higher standards than other candidates. I think this would leave any future career in politics for her in shambles or if she decides to retire, her legacy will be tainted.
February 8, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Right now many people look at the Democratic party as lower than dirt. They feel the Dems are TOTALLY out of step with them. I think they are right. I think the D party will have to divorce itself from the super libs, do mucho mea culpas, and somehow convince the country it is the party of the common man. Whew! That’s a lot! Hillary will either have to sit it out or lead the charge to reform the party.
February 8, 2010 at 9:54 pm
I don’t know if my comments are getting through or not.
http://dailypuma.blogspot.com/2010/02/holy-bat-alliance-batman-gene.html
February 8, 2010 at 9:57 pm
I heard a rumor and I cannot find anything like it on the web. It goes like this: An opening occurs on the Supreme Court and BHO nominates Joe Biden for the spot. Then he nominates Hillary for VP to replace Joe so that the 2012 election will go better for BHO. What have your heard about such a rumor?
February 9, 2010 at 1:57 am
Pardon my dust, but if Hillary said no to VP in ’08 — and I am sure Obama offered it to her, she certainly would not take it in 2012. She loves her country and knowing what a disaster he is and how he treated her, she will not do this for him. She has said she does n;t want to stay on as SoS past one term — which is an infinitely more interesting and powerful job. I cannot imagine her wanting VP. Even if she wanted to run for Pres in 2016 — why be associated with this adminstration on the domestic side. I just can’t see it. She is a workhorse, and the VP spot is not dynamic enough for her.
February 8, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Sorry guys, I breezed right past posting #5.
February 8, 2010 at 10:54 pm
I think a lot of those posting (while the discussion is interesting) are missing the point that the Hillbuzz “Babes” are making.
What impact would a Utopia-Sarah-Hillary poll have?
By implication, (and this is entirely my interpretation) would it be worth activists financing such a thing from a legitimate pollster with the questions scrupulously honestly asked?
They [HillBuzz] are correct in their analysis of third party candidates throwing elections, and correct in the estimate (zero) of Hillary running as a third party candidate.
But wouldn’t such a poll — U-S-H — showing President Palin put the cat amongst the pigeons?
Food for thought.
February 8, 2010 at 11:29 pm
Maybe I’m naive, but I can’t see that lisping munchkin Bloomberg pulling much support on the national stage.
As previously noted, he’s a textbook nanny lib and personifies the elitist east coast snob.
February 9, 2010 at 1:58 am
Historically, Mayors do not do well running for national office.
February 8, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Hmm…I think Mrs. Clinton running either as an Indie or a Dem against Obama in 2012 is fraught with a lot of hurdles. Not only is it difficult to unseat an sitting Pres. it’s extremely difficult to challenge on who’s in your own party. Ronald Reagan tried that with Gerald Ford and Ted Kennedy tried that with Jimmy Carter. I understand there’s some bad blood as a result of the ’08 primaries and a rematch would be desired by some but I think there are many party insiders who would do all they can to avoid that in-fighting, especially if a republican challenger begins to grow in power.
Additionally, Obama’s numbers would have to sink pretty low for a challenger to have a chance at him and chances are if voters are unhappy with the current guy in office they’re also unhappy with his party, which makes it liklier that a Repub would be the more dangerous challenger.
Right now, and that really doesn’t mean a hill of beans since it’s so far out, the most powerful Republican in the country is Sarah Palin. Now, people can hem and haw about whether she should run or whether she can win, but bottom line is she commands the spotlight and for many, many people she’s practically the Shadow President. Sure, she’s not slick, but after this shiney snake oil salesman we have, I can’t tell you how much I crave a President who’ll just look me in the eye and tell me the frank, honest truth, but never forget to keep that optimistic outlook.
I don’t know if Palin will run in 2012, although, it sure as hell looks like she will. She still has to make it through the GOP primaries. I’m not looking to crown her President. She’s got to earn it just like anyone else, but from where I sit, I don’t see any other Republican giving as good as she’s getting. I don’t see another Republican taking heavy fire and yet still, steadily, moving forward. I look forward to watching her in the next year.
From my hand to hers—”You Go, Girl!”
February 9, 2010 at 2:11 am
please if the media whores continue to protect OO, he will be okay. Unless a Tiger Woods like scandal is waiting to explode, he will win a second term easily.
February 9, 2010 at 6:07 am
No way. If the media continue to protect Utopia, they will simply continue to lose credibility. Look at their ratings/circulation numbers. No one is listening to them anymore. The only way Utopia gets re-elected is if (1) the dems steal it or (2) the repubs self-destruct–either of which is entirely possible. The MSM is no longer a factor, however.
February 10, 2010 at 1:46 am
Some people,however, only believe what they watch on Teee Veee. And they watch only CNN and/or MSNBC.
There are only 5-6% points difference between the winning and the loosing party.
February 9, 2010 at 9:05 am
I’m curious why they want Bloomberg, he is not even a Republican anymore, and a really liberal one at that. So, he may take a slice out of the left leaning indies who would have voted for Obama anyway?? He’s no where near the center, and if I remember correctly, his fiscal policies are not remotely Republican, or centrist. I do not see a NYC mayor appealing to a broad base of the electorate.
Remember, this poll is taken even before Palin has started to campaign. Who knows him outside of the Northeast/DC?
February 9, 2010 at 2:22 pm
So far as I remember, Bloomberg was a Democrat who switched to Republican so he could follow on after Guilliani.
There aren’t too many Republicans who’d vote for him as an independent. Nixon’s 11th commandment still has some validity. And no conservative worth his or her salt would vote for him, either.
I suppose it comes down to non-party affiliated. If they more liberaly/big government types who think The Won has gone too far, they might go for Bloomberg. But wouldn’t he peel off more votes from The Won than Sarah “Read My Palms” Palin?
Ultimately, I see Bloomberg as a “Coastie” candidate: he’ll do OK in the NE and the West Coast. But in the Deep South and most of flyover country, fugetaboutit.