Back in October of 2002, we remember sitting around the TV watching debate on the Iraq War resolution the Senate was passing.
We did not believe the Bush Administration’s reasons for going to war with Iraq. The whole case for taking the paper tiger of Baghdad out because he supposedly had weapons of mass destruction that could assault the United States was as plausible to us as claiming war was necessary because “Saddam Hussein must not build a time machine!”. Iran was, and remains, a great threat to the United States, with our worst enemy in the region actually Saudi Arabia, our supposed “friend and ally”. The Saudis fund global terrorism. Sending the House of Saud the way of the House of Bourbon, guillotines included, is the quickest way, in our book, to cut terrorism to the quick. Iran, through proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah, is behind every attack on Israel. Saddam Hussein, at the time the Iraq War resolution was debated, spent his days drawing elaborate plans for mosques to be built in the shapeof his thumbprint. He had blood taken out every day so a copy of the Koran could be written in it, for installation in his thumbprint mosque. The man wrote bad romance novels, then turned them into stage plays, and produced them into unwatchable movies.
Not a nice man, for sure, with two of the craziest and most dangerous sons to ever walk the Earth, but on the list of targets we’d have pursued, he’d barely crack the top ten.
In retrospect, we now see why the Bush Administration did what it did, and appreciate the fact the Senate received briefings far more detailed and revealing than what the public has been made aware of. War with Iran, or Saudi Arabia as we’d like to see, would have been untenable, for a host of reasons. Saddam was a paper tiger, Baghdad fell in days, and the US now has a strategic foothold in the region with new bases to replace previous ones in Saudi Arabia. We respect Bush for putting his presidency and legacy on the line to get us that new foothold, from which Iran will one day indeed be taken down; Iraq was a stepping stone to a much larger fight, and George W. Bush was a prescient, courageous, and selfless man to lay the groundwork for a future fight we need to have with the REAL menaces in the region.
But, in 2002, our hearts broke when Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War resolution — not so much because we didn’t want to go to war, but because we knew it sunk her presidential chances. Back then, we expected Clinton to run for president in 2004. We felt certain the public, while revved up for war in 2002 (just a little more than a year after 9/11), would sour on the concept by the next presidential race…and that Clinton would be harmed in the future if another candidate arose who could claim he was against the war, and thus rally gullible Liberals to his side. As much as we hate Liberals, Clinton needs them in her coalition to win…and she lost them in October 2002, never getting them back.
Clinton did the right thing for America, and the wrong thing for herself. In very real terms, she lost the presidency because of that, but whatever information the Bush Administration gave her was worth taking the stand that she did. Some day, when those Iraqi bases are used to take down the Muslim theocracy of Iran, and one of the greatest threats to Israel and the United States is at last removed, her sacrifice will be validated even more.
That one vote was a Before/After moment for Hillary Clinton, where nothing would be the same for her again once she cast her Yes in the Senate.
Today, Democrats in the Senate all face a similar Before/After moment. Perhaps they have more information than we do, and know better than all of us who see unmitigated disaster coming in the form of Utopiacare. But, every man, woman, and Harry Reid in the Senate needs to appreciate the fact that once they vote for Utopiacare, that’s the only thing that’s going to matter to many people.
Just as we knew voters would turn against the Iraq War lickety-split once 9/11 faded more deeply into memory, voters will turn against — with great anger — those Senators who vote to socialize medicine and take over the American economy.
Today, riding the bus, we passed one of Chicago’s hospitals and thought about the fact none of us here currently has health insurance. Back when we had actual, permanent, office jobs, only two of us even bought health insurance, and to be honest it was a waste of our money. We went for physicals, and found out we were totally healthy. The deductibles on that were twenty or thirty dollars. To find out nothing was wrong. Twenty or thirty dollars is groceries for a week. It’s also about three trips to Sidetracks for showtunes sing-a-long night, or two sausage and marshmallow After School Special pizzas from Pie Hole.
And the insurance cost something outrageous like $80-100 a month. That’s more than our utility bills. That’s a pair of new boots for the winter. It’s like 10 sport coats from Ragstock or Brown Elephant. It’s tickets to see 5 plays in the little theaters around Chicago. That’s almost 100 books from the resale shop.
For guys who eat right, exercise, brush our teeth, take care of ourselves, and rarely if ever get sick, sending $100 a month to Blue Cross didn’t do us much good…and deprived us of all the fun little things we could have done in Chicago with that money.
Feel free to lecture us on how not having health insurance is bad. One of us here had a bad skiing accident a few years ago, which cost him $1,500. Another one of us had a car accident, and that, too was several thousand dollars in bills. But, those rare events cost less than paying insurace premiums would have cost us. As ridiculous as that probably is.
When we passed by the hospital on the bus, we got angry thinking about the government FORCING anyone to buy health insurance. The government should not be able to FORCE you to buy anything. Where in the Constitution does the government have the power to FORCE you to buy things?
There’s provisions in the Constitution for the goverment to levy income taxes, which it does. We pay them because under the Constitution that’s a requirement of us as citizens. We may not like it, but it’s right there in the Constitution, clear as day. Forcing us to buy things is not in the Constitution, so we have a major problem with that.
There is no precedent for the anger this boils inside us.
We have a feeling that sentiment will be shared with tens if not hundreds of millions of other out there. What Democrats are doing rushing through Utopiacare will come back to haunt them in a firestorm they personally have summoned. God help them all, because we certainly won’t.
Since Ben Nelson’s been bribed, and is now on board with this madness, the bill will indeed pass. The MSM will cheer. The White House will gloat. Democrats will congratulate themselves. And voters will seethe with anger, getting madder and madder every day as they have the opportunity to read and fully understand the lunacy Democrats have wrought.
Doctors will be forced to abandon their practices. Health insurance premiums will skyrocket. The government will intrude into private lives like never before, telling people with little money how to spend the few bucks they have left. Employers will stop hiring because they won’t be able to afford insurance coverage. Hospitals will go out of business. What’s still being called merely “The Great Recession” will indeed become a full-blown Global Depression…all because of the 60 idiots voting for Utopiacare.
This act on their part will permanently split many from the Democrat party; these are the people who haven’t left already, the people who will become Palin Democrats in 2012. It’s clear to us Mitch McConnel is allowing Utopiacare to pass because he knows what a party-destroying disaster it’s going to be for Democrats in 2010 and 2012. We hope that means Republicans have a plan for eliminating this madness once they take Congress back next year. This will now be a solid part of the Republican 2012 presidential platform, so we will look with great anticipation for what Governor Palin has to say about the way forward.
There are a lot of Democrat Senators we like very much, on personal levels. Some of these people we got to know fairly well in the 2008 campaign. We don’t think, after this vote, that we’ll ever be able to help these people in any way going forward. We certainly won’t be able to stop the public backlash against them.
We hope this vote is worth losing their careers over. Hillary Clinton knew what she was doing in 2002, and probably gave the presidency away to further US strategic interests longterm. Whatever these Democrats are sacrificing their careers and futures for, we hope it’s as worth it to them.
December 19, 2009 at 11:58 am
$100? *LOL* My DD (24 living in New York) pays three times that with a high deductible. My husband’s work health insurance costs us $600/month for the 4 of us …. that is WITH company picking up a big portion of it.
Now healthy folks like you guys will be paying through the nose for health insurance you do not need. Because Harry Reid said so.
I woke up this morning with my first thought being that I hoped all our Senators would be snowed into the Capitol building and the electricity was cut off.
We are all screwed.
When you mention that before/after day for Secretary Clinton, I thought to myself, yes, this is that day for the American people. We will look back on this day as the day that socialism took over free enterprise and liberty for our country.
Next week, I hear Harry Reid is going to mandate we all buy Chevys.
December 19, 2009 at 12:03 pm
“Use these powers wisely,” Senator Clinton told President Bush in her speech on the Senate floor in 2002. Only if all other options, including diplomacy fail should force be considered, she said. If enough/all Americans read Hillary’s ENTIRE speech about her yes vote on the Iraq war, they would see what an ANTI-war speech it was.
Before he was ever “elected” to Congress, that b****** bho the fraud gave a fake anti-war speech to a small rabid, anti-war audience in his usual, agreeing with the current group cowardly manner. He voted to fund the war all the way through as Hillary did, said he might have made the same decision re: Iraq as GWB. Then the despicable Axelrod created a new “enhanced” version of the fraud’s pre-Congress speech for the primaries
I truly believe if the MSM served the electorate with ALL the facts about Hillary and the fraud as they happened, bho the fraud would be in jail and Hillary would be in the Oval Office.
December 19, 2009 at 12:59 pm
PLUS, the BIG PLUS, Middle Eastern terrorists BOMBED NYC with OUR airplanes. Good for Hillary for daring to protect her own.
December 19, 2009 at 12:10 pm
“Feel free to lecture us on how not having health insurance is bad. ”
HB, I’ve been posting here a long time. ya know I used to be a lifelong democrat, a Hillary democrat before the party went all marxist and socialist.
When I was unemployed, I had no insurance, and then I finally got a part time job, I too CHOSE not to buy healthcare b/c I needed that money for groceries, etc.
I made sure to eat right, etc took care to prevent getting sick. I sure as hell don’t want the govt telling me I gotta buy something I do not want or can afford!
THe undemocratic party is NOW the socialist/Marxist party.
I am now more pissed at them then I EVER was at Bush and Cheney.
I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER vote for another democrat as long as I live! EVER!!!!
December 19, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I blame Colin Powell for the IWR vote. At the time he was the most trusted man in America and his dog and pony show for the UN was very convincing. Hillary simply voted to keep us safe. Yet Powell ended up endorsing Mr. “Against Dumb Wars” for President with no history of taking a position on anything with his votes.
I’m all for running human health care like a veterinary clinic. You pay cash for minor and routine visits, and the practice sets up a payment plan for more serious accidents or injuries. In our area, free market drives the prices and services at the vet clinics. And take care of the poor people too. That’s why we all support the local SPCA ! Doesn’t that seem so simple?
We’re a retired military family, so we’re pretty lucky. Most of our civilian friends pay $800-1200/month with high deductibles ! That’s where the reform needs to be….but as long as it’s legal for insurance and health companies to buy politicians, it will never happen.
December 19, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I’m all for running human health care like a veterinary clinic. You pay cash for minor and routine visits, and the practice sets up a payment plan for more serious accidents or injuries. In our area, free market drives the prices and services at the vet clinics. And take care of the poor people too.
I agree, with the exception of the elderly who do need more focused care.
When I look at what we spend on our “company supported” health care, it makes me cringe. My DH and I both have high blood pressure and high blood sugar, but we STILL don’t come near using half that amount. We are paying exorbitant health insurance costs for what could essentially be taken care of with a high deductible policy for hospitalization and accidents. Right now, we pay $7200 a year to still pay $20 co-pays and $250/month for medications.
Catastrophic care (illness, accidents, and hospitalization) should be affordable. Most of us pay for more than we actually need. But I have no faith in our so-called representatives that their idea of what we need will in any way be affordable, comprehensive, or reasonable.
December 19, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I’m now an uninsured (former) Democrat Hillbuzz, with four kids. I absolutely would rather pay cash for medical care and instead invest the money that would go to premiums on a healthy diet, exercise, wellness programs. Forcing me to buy insurance for six people would send us into the poorhouse. What good is medical care if you have to go without food? Without heat, without transportation? With no quality of life?
LOL, I don’t know how you managed 100 a month for premiums, but we’re self employed. For the six of us our insurance premiums used to be 2700 a month. And we had a deductable for each person. The most we ever got out of it was the 400 dollars they covered for a tonsil operation. Every time we had to go to an emergency room the bill was equal to our deductable.
December 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Firstly, I am, as always so impressed with you all at Hillbuzz. Your honesty and integrity is deeply humbling.
This news was a really upsetting way to start my day, to say the least. I am trying to focus on the silver lining that this decision will only further fuel public outrage. Even though I am 100000% opposed to this wretched, disastrous legislation, I began thinking a few weeks ago that if it didn’t pass, some of the public anger might recede. And the dems might not be AS pummeled next year as I know they will be now. (And God help me, these assholes deserve a severe ass kicking.) Which I see as a positive only b/c at this point, I believe that some public outrage won’t cut it – we need an all out revolution to correct the wrongs of this administration. And BHO needs to be neutralized ASAP. We can’t risk a slight Republican victory in 2010; we need a vengeful sweep, in both houses.
So, at the very least, America just got even MORE. PISSED. OFF.
HB, your choice not to buy health insurance is – correction, WAS – completely within your right as Americans. Anyone who wants to lecture you on that should just up and move to Europe. Those people should just leave America already. Leave, so we can take our country back. Stop standing in the way of our freedom and move to a stupid socialist country where you can all spend your government-subsidized days lecturing each other about how you elitist snobs feel we simple Americans who just don’t get it should be living our lives. And we will stay here and wake up every morning feeling deeply grateful for our freedom and our great, exceptional country. Just leave – we won’t miss you one bit.
At face value, this is a bad day for America. But I am going to remain hopeful that it could also be the day that the left committed suicide, once and for all. And the day that American anger reached fever pitch, and Americans got mad as hell enough to commit to a revolt and do whatever we have to to turn the socialist tide and take out country back.
December 19, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Kelly:
You are right, we have to stay positive some way.
My mom had no clue what was going today, and was outraged when I told her. She immediately called our pathetic senators here in PA. I think the public will be outraged once they feel the affects of this bill.
We have to fight for our country.
December 19, 2009 at 12:42 pm
To quote the character Turkish from the great movie “Snatch”:
“And now…we are f*cked.”
Well done, buzzers. You have very correctly identified this awful vote as a tipping point in American history- perhaps the last such tipping point our country will experience before its dissolution.
Do keep in mind- after this debacle, next up is cap and trade which will cripple any remaining energy intensive industry in our country.
And of course, immigration reform which will provide millions of new dummycrat voters if all goes to plan.
So that’s just great- the self same villainous whores, thieves, and criminals that enacted this depression triggering legislation (another thing you got right, buzz) will have assured re-election majorities.
It’s about 5 minutes to Go Galt time. Or secession. Or both.
Merry Christmas, all.
December 19, 2009 at 12:44 pm
The only up side? When the economy is destroyed and our country is without food, water, or power ….. they can’t blame it on Bush anymore.
December 19, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Hillbuzz guys, No one should be forced to pay for Government mandated insurance policies.
No one. Ever.
This is going to really kill the economy, you know. The taxes will start being collected the day that awful Obama signs the finished, collective bill.
The taxes are going to be really high. And I’ll bet you that we will be stuck with Obamacare for eternity.
What we are going to need from you is how on earth you can buy groceries for a week with $20 or $30? I need your recipes!!
If you boys are that frugal, you can teach others how to be that frugal!
December 19, 2009 at 1:36 pm
We’re single, so that’s $20-30 per guy.
Here’s a typical grocery list for a week:
* bag of broccoli = $4.00 or so
* box of cereal = $3.00 (whatever is low sugar and on sale, don’t care about brand)
* jar of peanut butter = $4.00 (sale brand)
* cottage cheese = $3.00 (sale brand)
* canned soup or chili = $6.00 or so (whatever is 5/$5 or 3/$6, that sort of deal)
* baguette = $2.00 (good for two-three days because we don’t care if it gets hard)
* other veggies/fruits = whatever is on sale, but usually some bananas, carrots, tangerines, pears, etc. about another $5.00 or so worth
Some weeks, we have leftover cans of chili, soup, or peanut butter from the previous week, so we don’t have to buy those again.
We also sometimes like buying rice dried beans and making that for dinner with some veggies.
Now, we’re lucky that we all work in private events, at least part time, so we also get free food all the time as well. And we go to a lot of political events and get invited to lots of parties where there’s food. We also are very smart about hitting happy hours where there are little buffets and things.
So, in addition to what we buy for the pantry, we get all these random meals for free because of work and activities.
That helps too…not so much with the added weight it brings, but we’re not buying meals.
December 19, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Oh – in terms of recipes, when we cook at home, it’s just because we are hungry and don’t care about being fancy.
Literally, it’s raw broccoli, boiled rice, peanut butter on french bread, rice and beans in a bowl.
No salt. No seasonings. No condiments. Just the bare basics.
Absolutely no one else on Earth likes our cooking…but we never have anyone over for dinner. So, we nickel and dime at home in private because we don’t care about being fancy there, just want to not be hungry and have enough energy to keep going.
If we had kids, or lived with anyone, we would care more, but it’s just us, so it’s bare bones.
December 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm
I honestly fear for the quality of care for people who get sick. Here’s a good/depressing companion post to Hillbuzz’s eloquent thought on this mess:
http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2009/12/19/the-left-the-right-and-the-american-public-couldnt-stop-60-votes/
December 19, 2009 at 12:54 pm
The sooner Americans understand what insurance is supposed to do, the better.
Think about your car insurance. What does car insurance pay for? It pays for a catastrophe. It pays for an accident or the theft of your vehicle. It does not pay for an oil change. It does not pay for a new engine. It does not pay for new tires or new brakes.
Health insurance has become a discount policy. Instead of being there for a catastrophic event, it’s used for regular maintenance. And people wonder why costs skyrocket. If you’re not shopping around for the most value for your personal dollar, prices go up. They’ll continue to rise because providers know that insurers will only pay a portion of the charges.
Have you looked at what your provider bills compared to what insurance pays? The difference is staggering. The providers know this. They add a steep markup in order to get the minimal payment from the insurers. It’s why doctors are always willing to give a cash payer a steep discount.
Until Americans move away from the ridiculous idea that insurance is supposed to cover everything, nothing is going to change.
Support health savings accounts, support purchasing insurance across state lines, support high-deductible catastrophe plans… that’s real reform.
December 19, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Excellent. You are exactly right. The only problem I see with this idea is what to do when they want to total the car!
December 19, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hillbuzz
found you guys a few months ago, and thank goodness…what a breath of fresh air
Keep it coming,please.
We’re all wondering how and where we’ll be in another year, sadly, looks as if Nelson has caved…we’re doomed.
‘TOLD YA SO’… Sarah Palin
December 19, 2009 at 1:16 pm
As a NYer, I totally understood Hillary’s vote on Iraq. She was senator from NY. The state that took the worst beating from the terrorists in this world. She would have likely been voted out of the senate in ’06 if, say another attack had happened. She had to look out for NYer’s and the citizens of the US.
December 19, 2009 at 1:33 pm
I am so disappointed in Ben Nelson.
I’m so disappointed in this entire bill.
Sure, sure – we can vote out the democrats next year, but we will still be stuck with this mess once it is signed.
I’m feeling very frustrated and angry right now!
December 19, 2009 at 1:46 pm
There’s always hope for repeal…Even though we (insanely) start paying taxes on this crap now, it will take years until anything is fully implemented…There is plenty of time to repeal this madness.
December 19, 2009 at 2:45 pm
1) I thought it was absurd for not only BHO to talk about Hillary’s vote in the Senate, but for people to believe him. Let me explain. Well…um…he wasn’t in the Senate. He could say whatever he wanted. But as you and I and everyone knows (well, those with half a brain) for many situations, you just never know how you are going to react. Or what you are going to do. You can say all you want, but when it comes down to it, BHO wasn’t there and didn’t have to cast a vote. So he could be all high and mighty, but seriously, he just wasn’t there. I explained this to my crazy Dem friends, and they actually couldn’t respond, cause they knew I was correct.
2) This is just awful. I sent my husband a letter from some group that would help you send a letter to your congressperson that basically says vote against this awful bill. Being in Georgia, with two republican senators (we TRIED, but we couldn’t help enough to not have 60) – well, I am quite sure what they are going to be voting for. So my husband said: what do we need to send letters for? The letters won’t persuade them at all…they know how they voting. I told my husband: Right…but they need to know what the constituents have to say. It was extremely close for Chambliss last year – the dem almost won…and so the R’s need to know how many people they have behind them, and how many people feel as they do, so that, even tho we know how they will vote, well, they need to make that vote knowing that their constituents agree with them.
3) going without health insurance is your choice – but I do understand the flip side. If you go to the hospital in an emergency, the hospital must take you in. Whether you have insurance or not, whether they know you can pay or not. So maybe you will pay the bills, but there are plenty who don’t or won’t. There was a great article in the washington post not long ago about this guy who called 911 in Washington DC about 2/3 times a day – so he would be taken to the emergency room, blahblhblah – and never paid a penny. Owes the govt of DC about $1 million. We need to get some control over people like that in our system. This bill from congress will NOT stop that abuse – it will increase it, actually.
And then what happens if you get a serious disease and the cost exceeds $1 million? If you got cancer, and you can, no matter how healthy you are, that’s quite a gamble. I’m trying not to lecture, and I hope it doesn’t sound like that, but personally, for my family and I, well, we can’t take those chances.
In any event, clearly this bill sucks. Everyone who discusses health insurance indicates how the model of tying health insurance to your job is about the worst idea ever. Yet, this bill ties your health insurance MORE to your job. And what about me? I don’t have a job. My husband (well, for now) gets health insurance for the family through work. But what if i *did* go to work? Then we both have jobs – would my employer get fined (or me…) if they didn’t offer health insurance, but I already got it thru another way? How do you deal with that? Would that make me a cheaper employee to hire? So would employees just look to hire someone who won’t be needing them to supply health insurance?
Congress doesn’t care about our health – or they’d do something to help your health. They aren’t. They are doing something to supposedly help health insurance. Which is idiotic. I don’t care about INSURANCE, I care about HEALTH. This does nothing to make anyone healthier – just makes us have less in our pockets. Great.
The other thing is – well, those people without health insurance who they keep talking about? Some are LIKE YOU – and they CHOOSE not to get health insurance. I so totally agree with you re: your choices, and forcing your choices, etc. It’s just insane. So while congress cries for all those poor poor people who don’t have INSURANCE…it’s so awful.
Of course, they don’t have to worry. they’re keeping what they have.
December 19, 2009 at 5:32 pm
According to my military friends we did go to Iraq for strategic reasons. It’s not coincidence that Iraq is sandwiched between Syria and Iran. They did have WMD in Iraq. There were threats from Iraq. President Bush didn’t just sit down and make stuff up. But having Iraq between Syria and Iran is very important. People forget that before the Iraq war started Israel was getting ROCKED with explosions every single day. When we went into Iraq a lot of the bombings in Israel were diverted to us. We were able to capture/defeat a lot of those terrorists. It’s amazing how we forget these things.
Obama is not a war president. He is a “me-me-me” president. He cares more about his standing and the socialist movement than he does about our country. I don’t even think he considers our country very important. It would not surprise me in the least if he moved overseas after he gets kicked to the curb.
While we sit here all caught up in Obama’s effort to destroy our government and turn us against eachother our enemies overseas are busy…and we’re not paying attention.
December 19, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Folks,
I know you are upset, as am I. However it should be noted that this is only the first period. That’s hockey – three periods, 20 minutes each.
Since the house and senate bills don’t match – except for some common words like “and” and “the – the legislation would go to a conference committee – equal number from house and senate – to iron out he differences.
This “compromise” is then presented to both houses for a final vote. I don’t expect that it will ever come out of conference. The house will say “we can’t pass a bill without the public option”. The senate will say “we can’t pass a bill with the public option”. This applies to a number of other issues such as abortion funding, Medicare cuts, re-importation of drugs, ad nauseum.
If it does come out of conference it will never come close to 60 votes in the senate. The Dems may appear to be crazy but much of that is political maneuvering – if I buck the leadership I lose my parking spot and nobody will sit with me in the cafeteria. They are procrastinating. No reason to make a final decision until you have to.
When crunch time comes – the hanging is imminent – they’ll save their own necks. In the mean time maybe something will happen to save their bacon. WWIII?